Employing someone?

Having used carers and agencies for a few years, may I add my two pennarth?

Agencies get clients to sign a form which says they cannot `poach` a carer, until they have left the agency for 6 months - 1 year. They could `fine` the client large sums of money, as the agency has trained, found and done DBS `s on carers.

Personally I prefer to engage my carers directly on Direct Payments. Agencies charge far more....sometimes treble the amount the LA gives us to spend on carers. My carers are protected with contracts and insurance.

Hi
I don't know if anyone can help, i am looking for an asian carer to help my elderly mum wash and dress everyday, she has numerous health issues including dementia.Looking for someone who is prepared to travel to Wimbledon.

The point about using an agency is that they send a replacement if your care has a day off, is ill or goes on holiday. This doesn’t happen if you employ someone directly. My mother’s career comes from an agency but wanted my mother to sack her cleaner so she could be paid to do the cleaning. We decided it was better to keep this separate too.

This post is 10 months old now, with no recent replies from the OP.....either the situation has been resolved, or possibly the 90yr old mother is no longer around...

This is my line of work, rates of pay are too low for carers who play a valuable part in society replacing families who once would have done this caring.
There is an increasing black market in jobs as individuals struggle with low pay. It’s a risk on both parts but it works for lots of people and always has done.
Protect mum, choose carers wisely, install cameras, read CQC standards and ratings on the internet. Monitor the carer and have frequent conversations with mum and carer(s).

Sorry that should have been for Synonymous

Bump for Loopyloo

If you pay someone, even cash in hand, you are employing them. You are therefore responsible for sick pay, holiday pay, maternity pay and you have to register as an employer so you can pay their national insurance. You are also responsible for their work place pension. You have to have health and safety assessments on everything they do. (Can do that yourself).
You might need work place insurance incase they hurt themselves.
You can contact the care agency you are using and ask that your mum only has 2 or 3 carers. That way your mum had continuity if someone is sick or on holiday.
Good luck

I have direct experience of this from the other side, a close friend was employing a girl from the village directly and she became upset when the girl became overinvolved in her life and over stepped boundaries as there was no clear employee/employer boundary. Since using carers from an agency she is much happier.

Hmm I agree with you GracesGran- she does have a POA ,we are both named but my brother does most of the financial stuff and I do the health . He also pays the cleaner in cash she's been with mum for 25 years+ when everyone paid in cash . She would get no help from social services - too much money !! If she ever needs full time care she would pay for a live in carer plus me .....

Whether you pay cash in hand is up to you SusieB50, if your mother doesn't have a PoA or need additional care for which you will need financial help from the local authority. In each of those cases you will have to supply accounts so paying cash in hand, whatever you think of it morally - and I can see why people might go down that path - it could be difficult to explain under those circumstances.

Am I wrong in thinking that if mum has all her mental capacities then the decision is up to her?

That's the challenge with the family member/carer relationship marionk. If the mother requires the daughter to administer this it is no different to saying "if my daughter wants me to care for her children two days a week, it's up to her. Well no, it isn't. If you are relying on someone else they are involved in the decision making. This would require a large amount of extra work and the daughter having to take on a legal relationship with the carer. The mother may feel she is saving money but it sounds as if it could well be at the daughter's cost.

None of it is easy and there is no black and white, sadly. Even your comment about someone's having "all her mental capacities" isn't as simple as it sounds.

We changed to having recommended private carers for my 95 year old mother ( my brother lives with her ) as she didn't like having different ones each time and coming at 6pm to get her into bed ! We have two lovely women who are friendly but professional . They used to work for the council but also got fed up with being given time limits for each client . Yes we do pay cash I'm afaid and give them holiday and sick pay . Not sure about NI , they could work less than the mimimum hours each . I will have to check with Big Brother !

Am I wrong in thinking that if mum has all her mental capacities then the decision is up to her?

I agree that concerns over rates of pay should not be discussed by the carers. It's difficult though when you are working with a client on a regular basis personal issues can creep in.
There is no way the carer should suggest private payments either that's unethical. The agency provides all the employment costs, cover, training etc.
Gifts over the value of £5 should not be offered or accepted
as someone else said.
It's a minefield though and not all agencies pay or train their staff to an appropriate standard.

radicalnan You hit the nail right on the head! Indeed you should write the training manual!! You said;
"Care staff are there to perform practical stuff and provide support, not to burden their clients with worries and concerns." and gave examples. Brilliant! Thanks.
I wish I had been able to quote this when my mum was alive! I went through an awful time feeling like the "baddie" because I was not happy about the carer who did exactly what the OP has described! I eventually met the girl and knew my doubts were confirmed. No carer worth their salt talks about their own wages or personal problems. Maybe they can chat in a positive, friendly way about the funny things their children do... but never so as to make the person feel sorry for them or worry about them. This girl was the ultimate manipulative con-artist.

I am in agreement with Nanabilly when she says "I think it is quite wrong of the carer to have discussed wages with your mum" and says how this can be deliberate pressure to gain sympathy and more money.

I am sorry to say, because your mother knows the carers, that it might be advisable to tell the Agency that the carers have been talking this way. My mother and my other relative who lived nearer to her, so was in closer contact, were thoroughly taken in by a carer who was very good at befriending and beguiling people and getting them on her side. She was taking home gift after gift from my mother and the other relative was planning exactly the same scenario of by-passing the Agency. You have no security if you do this and the fact that the girls have discussed their wages suggests they are not ethical in the first place. I am suspicious of their motives.

MawBroon is very clear and I agree so strongly with her last para,;
"The carers are entirely out of order discussing their wages with a client and I might have serious doubts about their probity. Your mother and the carers need to see that this is a non- starter..."
I thought it was worth repeating.

Also now every employed person is entitled to pension contributions as well as National Insurance etc that has been mentioned.

My mum gave thousands of pounds over the years to her favourite paid carers even paying for holidays abroad for their families.
We didn’t found out about this until she had no money left to pay for carers.
I went up to mums everyday after work she was always happy .
I think it would be better to stick with the agency for many reasons .
They are accountable for safety and quality of care .
Many people are on zero hours and low wages ,it is hard but your mum doesn’t really know if they are claiming top up benefits working tax credits etc .
Also I find it hard to respect “carers “ talking about their personal situations they should be talking to your mum about her life .

Gracesgran. I don't have to be somewhere to know what good practice is. A professional care worker would not suggest clients do anything which affords them less protection than an agency does, it is not fair to client or agency.

Is that what I said radical nan, and specifically to you? Would you like to refer me to the post?

I have just, like everyone else, given my experience. I have also commented that all experiences will differ. My mother will not only seem to worry about the other people coming into her home but me too. She will say she is concerned about things I haven't mentioned and that are not a problem. She likes being concerned. People will vary and, as I thought I had explained there will be a spectrum going from those who, like my mother, just like to show concern and will latch on to anything - from me, from the television, etc., to the very small number who may be at risk from a dishonest carer. All I was suggesting was that we do not risk someone's job without some evidence.

It is tricky. My mum (and probably I am to a lesser extent) was like that. But once a cleaner who she thought she had a rapport with and from whom she had released from an agency stole a lot of money from her so she not only lost her money she felt humiliated and betrayed. Overall though I think it is a survival skill. My mother always appealed to the equal humanity of those she was dealing with with, above or below her socially. And this bond often meant she was treated well by them. She knew so much about her carers' families in her last care home it was like they had become part of her family. And I understood that because they were her family on a daily level. She wanted them to like her and she was interested in them, though I'd have prefferred firmer boundaries as it was exhausting for everyone. But it didn't stop her and overall I think it is a positive way to deal with those giving you care. So show the empathy you obviously feel and agree with her BUT point out the downsides, so eloquently spelt out above. especially as it will effect you...and say sadly no it is not a good idea. (and I have doubts too about the veracity of the carer's in this case) but lets keep an open mind and I do hope you will get her onside to willingly agree. And keep a close eye on the situation.

Care staff are there to perform practical stuff and provide support, not to burden their clients with worries and concerns. Boundaries are vital. Far too easy for care staff to leave people fretting about things.

I used to tell staff working with me that we could discuss things like a daughter's wedding, what dress, flowers, weather etc but not how it would be paid for......steering clear of money topics means fewer chances for the unscrupulous to try and get money out of vulnerable people.

It is the same with gifts of any kind, a limit needs to be placed upon what care staff can accept, a card at Christmas and a small gift may be aceptable if the parties both agree, but it must be formalised, for everyone's protection.

Gracesgran. I don't have to be somewhere to know what good practice is. A professional care worker would not suggest clients do anything which affords them less protection than an agency does, it is not fair to client or agency.

only do it through an agency employing privately is a minefield and if anything goes wrong they wont be covered

MrsJamJam It is important to ensure that the agency knows what is happening so that they can put a stop to it. Your mother is a vulnerable adult and that is the reason that they are employed to do what they are doing. The young lady who currently comes to me is using the job to get through college and that is the right way to improve her situation and earn more money in the long term.

The agency which I use has put in place a rule that their employees are not to burden the client with their own problems. This was specifically because they are working for vulnerable people who just cannot handle the pressures these sob stories bring to bear and are unable to divorce themselves from the responsibility to do something about it.

I really feel for those in low paid employment but I can not manage the angst of it all or do anything about it personally and know that whatever I could do would never be enough therefore I am grateful for the agency rule.

Not all carers are poorly paid.
The most I ever earned was £980npw for 7 days, 07:30 - 19:00 with 2 hours off in the afternoon. I worked there for 15 months.
Some of that time was spent driving my employer to the shops or visits (in her car) or maybe reading to her. She employed a cleaner who also prepared the evening meal.
My job was her personal care and driving with some shopping.
I really enjoyed it as it was 1 week on 1 off. During the week off I had another similar but lighter job with fewer hours, which paid £420npw, funded by Swindon Council.
Both positions were living in with my own rooms and use of a car but I drove my own car so I received an allowance for petrol etc.
All the positions were offered in 'The Lady' magazine.
I 'incorporated' myself thus my tax bill was very light thanks to Gordon Brown.