My mum wants to die and it’s all she talks about

My MIL died a couple of years ago at the great age of 101. She lived with us for the last three years of her life and was fortunate to keep all her faculties, just a little problem with her short term memory, until the end. We talked very openly about how she wanted to end her days and she was clear that she didn't want to go into hospital and if her health deteriorated she didn't want to be kept alive with lots on medical intervention. In her last year she started to show signs of heart failure, which was initially controlled but slowly she was finding her life more arduous and decided to stop her medication and moved onto palliative care. All this was discussed with her GP and she had made the necessary declaration. She died peacefully at home with us. I would urge everyone to discuss these things whilst they are still in relatively good health and also to ensure that all the family are aware of what the person wants. I felt we were able to support my lovely MIL to have the death she wanted but unfortunately, she had not discussed it with her daughter, who wanted to try everything to keep her alive. My Dr daughter often has to discuss the imminent death of a patient with relatives and often finds they want to try anything and everything to keep their loved one alive when it is clearly not in the patient's interest. Being ready to die is not always a sign of depression, it can be one of acceptance.

Dear Betty
I read what you are going thròugh and what everyone else has gone through, i have tears in my eyes, i am so sorry you are going through this with your dear mum x

I know some if what you are going through, my mum had vascular dementia, it never changed her personality thank goodness, i can imagine that would be so very heartbreaking to hear. When i was working as a carer, we were faced with many, many situations such as yours, the families would cry out of sheer helplessness to us, we used to hug them and hug their mum/dad.

You most certainly are not alone dear Betty, there is a lot of help out there to ease your worries. Remember, this isn't your lovely mum, it isn't, you know she wouldnt say and do these things, its the demenia.

Hugs to you dear Betty.

I'm sorry you had a panic attack Betty65, I started having them when my husband died. I take Bach's Rescue Remedy spray and it works for me, they also do pastilles. I count through them now to try and get my breathing back to normal. Scary aren't they, big hugs.

My husband's grandmother was 89 when she started saying she wanted to die as 'everything hurt', it is understandable. I am sorry your Mum might also have bowel cancer, let us know how she gets on.

Can you think of anything that would distract your Mum from focussing on death, something she would look forward to doing/seeing? You could just bring in when you visit so it's like a 'treat'?

My friend has just gone into a home, I used to lend her my DVD's. She was really enjoying my 'Coast' collection before she left. Her daughter popped in today and returned them, it seems there's not a DVD player in her Mum's room, just a tv. I'd want a DVD player if I was there.

Good luck, you are a lovely daughter.

Betty65 I'm so sorry that you are going through this with your mum. I can relate somewhat. My own DM passed away last week, yesterday would have been her 101st birthday. For almost four years she has been in a nursing home and for the past few months, she has been saying she was ready to go. In recent weeks that conversation had increased. It was difficult to respond to at the time but in hindsight, I wish I'd been a better listener. I realize now that that was what she needed, to be heard and maybe to be reassured, as you say you've done with your mum. I'm not sure I did that and the guilt is heavy along with the pain of missing her.

You have a heavy burden on you, being the one close by and the only one allowed to visit during restrictions. You're bound to be feeling stressed. As usual, the grans on here have a lot of good advice. Take care of yourself. for you and your mum

How very sad and stressful for you, Betty65. How often do you visit? Can you cut visits down, or take someone with you?

My poor mother had Alzheimer’s from her very early 80s, was in her care home from 89 until she died at 97, and for the first few of those years visiting could be extremely stressful, because it was an endless repetition of, ‘Get me out of here!’

It was always much easier if e.g dh came with me, though that wasn’t very often. I should add that the care home was excellent, the staff were lovely, and by the time she went there, she could no longer even make herself a cup of tea and was no longer safe to be left alone at all.

Sometimes I would dread visits so much, I had to psych myself up to go, and would sometimes chicken out altogether, because I just couldn’t face it.
Sadly and ironically it was much easier once she no longer recognised me (or any of her family) - I was just a ‘nice lady’ who made her cups of tea and brought her chocolate.

Once she was in her early 90s and her dementia was so advanced that she was doubly incontinent and was no longer able to take pleasure in anything, it was agreed with the care home that except in the case of e.g. another broken hip (she’d already survived one at over 90) there should be no hospital - in any case a terrible place for anyone with dementia - and certainly no ‘striving to keep alive’.

I knew my mother’s former self would have been horrified at the pitiful state she was in, and would have been the first to say ‘For heaven’s sake, just let me go.’ By then I honestly think that any ‘striving’ would have verged on cruelty.

If you would wish to, have you you had any sort of similar conversation with the care home staff?

Our CH staff were entirely in agreement with the family’s thinking on this, but in the event the situation never arose - after 8 years in the CH, she went suddenly downhill and died within 36 hours. By then I had honestly begun to think she’d see me out - I was 67 - and I’m sure the CH staff had begun to think she’d go on for ever.

I don’t mind admitting that although part of me was sad, the main sentiment of me and my siblings was to be relieved that she was released from that pitiful, undignified life at last.

Betty65 I am so sorry you are going through such a dreadful time with your Mum.

My mum decided when she had had enough and stopped eating. I was critisized for not trying to persuade her to eat, but it was her decision and I’m glad I didn’t intervene.

However I suspect your mum being in a Home precludes her from making any decisions for herself.

?

Betty65 I’m sorry.

I had a dear Aunt that died yesterday age 93, her family were with her and allowed her the dignity to make choices to the end and die peacefully at home.

However I have a good friend who’s mother also 93 is in a home and saying she wants to die, my friend will not hear of it!
She is demanding blood tests, new meds etc.

I really feel you should listen to your Mum, tell her you respect her wishes and do what you can with DNR’s etc.

Sorry crossed posts.

Does she have a twiddlemuff? One of those gave comfort to someone I knew who was suffering from vascular dementia. I found someone on ebay who makes them.

Betty65 I’m so sorry about your DM’s situation and your own. Awful as it is, it sounds like she will soon get her wish. From my experience you can try to distract but it’s on her mind so, if you think she would appreciate honesty, all you can really do is let her talk and maybe reassure her that it won’t be long and that everyone will make sure she’s comfortable. Maybe your DM doesn’t have too many other visitors? You might find if you take someone else with you, such as a gc, she will chat with that person. Or is there anyone who could visit her sometimes instead of you to give you a break, however brief? You need to regain some strength for both of you. Try to look after yourself.

Excellent post, luckygirl.

But is your mum calling the lady mad because she has a doll or some other reason Maybe my mum was further down the line with Alzheimer’s it was just a thought
Is she able to do anything I think I d want to die if I was just sitting in a care home staring ahead with nothing to do Have you tried giving her any activities colouring or just asking her to help fold things or put things away Sorry if these have all been tried but it’s about her needing a purpose and they re just ideas

My mum just had an ordinary doll from the charity shop but you can get really lifelike ones or even a dog or cat if she loves animals it can just give her a purpose even if we know there is no real purpose

Funny there is a lady in the home with a doll and my mum calls her mad so don’t think that will work. At the moment the care home is on COVID lockdown and I am the only one allowed in as they say she is one palliative care due to the looming cancer. My brother is in Spain so that’s difficult too although he does call her twice a day and gets the death conversations too. I think as I am the closest it affects me more

A doll is a lovely idea. Or one of those pretend puppies/kittens I have read about which seem to breathe and make little sounds?

Just seen your post BlueBelle and agree that a doll is a brilliant idea.

I'm so sorry to read this Betty it must be breaking your heart.

BlueBelle, a doll. What a good idea! I wonder if there are lifelike soft dollies that can be taken to bed and cuddled.

This has reminded me that I should look into completing a Living Will.

My mum found great comfort and companionship in a doll I asked her to look after the ‘baby’ for me and for her last few years she was never without a doll occasionally when she got angry about something she would sling it across the room but most often it was loved and rocked, burped, and cuddled I had to craftily change it over sometimes so I could wash it
I wonder if this would help your mum

My mum had vascular dementia and cancer but pneumonia ended her life. She had terrible moods it was heart breaking. My lovely mum was someone else and could be quite nasty to me.
Is there know one else who can visit rather than you going all the time? I live ten mins away from my mum's former house and the nursing home. I was going everyday but it got so bad I had to keep away a few days a week.
That's what I honestly recommend you do for your own sanity. Eventually mum was very ill and died in hospital peacefully in her sleep. My heart goes out to you as I know what you are going through take care of yourself.

I've just read the other posts. So many and there were none when I started to type. Music is a good idea. My mother did not know who I was - she just knew I was connected to her. But when Songs of Praise came on the radio she would sing along, remembering all the words.

Janet Street Porter when talking about aging once said that the people running care homes would have to re-think their choice of music for our generation - no more "Daisy Daisy" but plenty of rock and roll!

There are two main practical questions.

Is your mother sufficiently aware to consent to doctor assisted dying? And can she afford the £9,000 approximately that it costs to go to Switzerland to Dignitas?

I think to answer the first question you may have to consult a solicitor.

I am very sorry for your mother and hope her suffering will soon be over.

It is very sad - but maybe she is right. Maybe life has just become too much for her - too unbearable. My grandmother came to that decision and simply decided to stop eating and drinking - I admired her bravery and her clear-sightedness.

Maybe all the things that gave her life meaning are now lost to her. Are there things that she is able to enjoy still? - TV, music, art, company?

My OH reached the point where there was nothing that gave his life meaning that was left to him - he could not stand or walk, play his violin, enjoy films on TV, feed himself, go to the toilet, and he had lost his grip on reality believing that he was being cut up and put down the sewer. When pneumonia arrived we took the decision to regard it as the Old Man's Friend and not to send him to hospital for heroic efforts to drag him back to his miserable existence - and in a lucid moment he endorsed this.

Life has to have some meaning to be worthwhile and it sounds as though that is how your Mum feels. You have not failed her - she does not feel like that because of something you have done or not done - she is simply trying to live in a body that has worn out. No amount of good care can change that fact.

The combination of physical failure plus mental loss is unbearable to live with and I know how very hard it must be for you to watch over this. It is, as I know only too well, truly agony.

Make her as comfortable as you can; hold her hand; play her music that you know she loves.

Of course take medical advice about whether anti-depressants might help her, but do not expect miracles from that = old people react very differently to medication and it is hard to get the right drug at the right dose - we went through that all to no avail.

Get her all the help available; but please do not see her desire to have an end to her suffering as a failure on anyone's part, especially not yours.

I am so sorry that she, and you, are going through this.

You are not alone in this. When my Mum had Alzheimers, many years ago she started to talk about dying. This was in the fairly early stages when she was often difficult. Sometimes, when we were out, if we were crossing a bridge she used to say "I'd like to throw myself off" and I used to think to myself " For f...s sake do so" . I never uttered those words.

My mother did change and she became sweet and gentle.

Before she died she developed pneumonia and the doctor told us they would do nothing other than try to drain her lungs if she went to hospital. She stayed in the nursing home and my sister and I were with her all the time for her last week which was more peaceful than if she'd been in hospital.
The staff in the nursing home were very kind to us whilst we were with her.

My FIL decided when he reached 90 that he no longer wanted to be here and in fact he started talking about a booth where you could put in some money and take out a pill. He had a TIA and was taken to hospital and he also had bronchitis. It was thought that he might have mesothelioma and they wanted our permission to do a biopsy, under general anaesthetic. By then he was 92 and we didn't see the point and so we refused. They looked upon us as if we were murderers. He'd been unhappy and wanted to go. His DW had died some years before and most of his family too.

Please try not to let this get to you any more. I think that the Alzheimers Society will have someone understanding that you can talk to. Many of us will have experienced this so you are not alone.

I wish you well