Relative won't make POA

🤞

This has been great. I am working on a snailmail letter using some of the stuff here, emphasising we are worried about her. In the event we get POA done will post on here.

It is entirely correct that a local authority can apply for deputyship from the Court of Protection.

You need solicitors advice like GSM says. I was lucky our family solicitor told my mum to do it before she lost capacity. My MIL would not until just before she did.
I was lucky in that I knew one of the local social workers and followed her advice and in the end everything went smoothly ,except for breaking the counting machine at the bank with the old money I found all over my mother,s house. It was her account but I had charge of it.
It was a lot of work and I am afraid I refused to do the same for an elderly relation who had two children who wanted nothing to do with it.
In some cases you have to be hard and I'm afraid just say NO.

icanhandthemback

It is worth anyone having an LPA in place. My friend had a family member who was left for dead by her ex-husband. She was left a paraplegic who could not advocate for herself. The family can't do anything, it all has be done through the Court of Protection Deputyship. It takes ages to get anything done so things like arranging a new Mobility Vehicle take much longer so she is without transport every time it comes up for renewal. If her electronic equipment has a problem (her only means of communication as she was left unable to talk) they have to wait until they get permission to replace it so she is left for months without a means of communication. It is stunningly cruel and an LPA would have removed that aspect.

When I had deputyship it was a simple process when in place, if my mother needed anything I simply paid for it from her account and kept the receipts.

Totally agree: I have this in place and sincerely hope that I have " wasted" my money in having this ( and my will ) drawn up by a solicitor. It's like house insurance- I would like to never have need of it, but that's no reason not to have it.

Absolutely right. Anyone can be robbed of their ability to manage their affairs in a nanosecond, at any age. Appointing one or more trusted people to deal with health and finances makes sense. People of our age consider the possibility of a stroke, but a catastrophic accident can happen to anyone at any time.

It is worth anyone having an LPA in place. My friend had a family member who was left for dead by her ex-husband. She was left a paraplegic who could not advocate for herself. The family can't do anything, it all has be done through the Court of Protection Deputyship. It takes ages to get anything done so things like arranging a new Mobility Vehicle take much longer so she is without transport every time it comes up for renewal. If her electronic equipment has a problem (her only means of communication as she was left unable to talk) they have to wait until they get permission to replace it so she is left for months without a means of communication. It is stunningly cruel and an LPA would have removed that aspect.

It is not necessary to appoint a solicitor to deal with financial matters.

Social Services and Courts woukd become involved with someone appointed to manage her care needs. Finance would probably be via an appointed solicitor. No time to lose to make a POA if dementia is setting in as confirmation of being in sound mind and no coercion going on needed.

My late mother was a narcissist, she went to see a solicitor at my request to set up a POA, I told her I did not necessarily want to be the named person, she told her solicitor that myself and husband were coercing her for money.

The solicitor advised her not to go ahead.

A few months later my mother lost capability overnight due to a severe urine infection.
She never went home again.

I applied to the OPG for deputyship, it took 9 months.
In the meantime our local council who had supposedly set up a deferred payment scheme for her nursing home fees hadn’t.
I was getting final demands for £35,000+ and threatened with legal action.
I couldn’t even get her health information from the home, I went through a year of hell.

Thank the Lord for a supportive husband, I was close to a nervous break down.

She had told so many people I stole from her, I wouldn’t even go to her house without someone with me.
I had no legal right to cancel all her payments, BUPA, charities, maintenance contracts etc, her house was haemorrhaging money.

She caused me untold grief, I would advise anyone who cares about their next of kin to get a POA and a will made also to make your wishes upon your death clear.

We had LPOA for both my DM and MiL, we used our family solicitor, we felt their costs were pretty reasonable, they’ve also done our wills, my parents wills and probate for both my parents. We just truly believe it’s better to pay a legal person, who knows their job, and have it done once and correctly.

We had a POA done after MiL diagnosed with vascular dementia, quite far on in to it, our solicitor “interviewed” her first to see if she actually understood what was happening and then insisted that we had an independent doctors report to back up that she still did capacity to understand the process. My husband still has both POA for Health & Welfare and Finances She is in a care home now, and fully council funded and we did have some say on where she was placed

kwest

What do you do if your very loving children say they do not feel ready yet to deal with all of that stuff?

I think maybe explain that setting up an LPA and registering it, means that you’re prepared for any eventuality, expected or otherwise and it’s far easier than what would need to be done if you were unprepared. Point out to your children that being next of kin doesn’t confer any entitlement to look after your affairs and make decisions on your behalf, should you lose capacity, and that without an LPA, a court appointed guardian would have to take responsibility, so decisions would be out of the hands of family and not necessarily what you would want. The thing with an LPA is that, once it’s done and registered, you can forget it until you need it, and you have peace of mind that your wishes have been stated and will be followed.

What do you do if your very loving children say they do not feel ready yet to deal with all of that stuff?

Germanshepherdsmum

If the family refuse to become involved and the local authority is providing any funding for a care home place then the local authority will apply for deputyship, and if necessary sell the house and other assets. I did quite a lot of that when working for a local authority. However the family appear immediately the person dies, wanting to know what’s left.

Yes, sorry I meant to say that in the absence of family, social services can do the same. I was a bit concerned that that poster was giving the incorrect impression that social services would automatically take over in the absence of an LPA, which is not the case if there’s family involvement. I’ve also had the same experience as yourself. My late husband had LPA for an elderly aunt, as her own sons didn’t want to be involved. He arranged a care home when she could no longer care for herself and she died after a a very short time in care, during which time her own family never came near. When she died they wasted no time in establishing a claim to what was left. Disgusting.

Yes.

I set up an Enduring POA many years ago. Is that likely to still be valid?

Witzend

Dementia doesn’t necessarily mean a POA is out of the question, but the person must understand at the time what it means.
Unfortunately dementia can make people very suspicious of other people’s motives. My mother had put an old style P of A in place years before it was needed, but once we really needed to activate it, she thought we just wanted to steal her money.

My brother just had to get tough - a cheque for a substantial sum of money had already gone missing - and been cashed, by heaven knows whom.

AFAIK relatives can apply to the Court of Protection for the management of someone’s affairs, but I believe it’s more expensive and takes a lot longer to set up.

I agree. It’s diminished or lost mental capacity, not the dementia itself that renders a person unable to agree to an LPA, and it’s a difficult area, because capacity is a legal term which can have far reaching consequences for the person for whom it’s in question. My own mum asked me to be her attorney after she was diagnosed with the onset of vascular dementia, and she was involved at every stage and understood what she was doing. Four years on, her capacity is diminished but she still has some understanding and lucid periods, so any decision I take as her attorney has to involve her as much as possible. I think a lot of people misunderstand LPA’s, and think it gives the attorney the power to take over completely, but in reality all decisions must be in the best interests of the donor, and must involve them as far as possible or reasonable.

If the family refuse to become involved and the local authority is providing any funding for a care home place then the local authority will apply for deputyship, and if necessary sell the house and other assets. I did quite a lot of that when working for a local authority. However the family appear immediately the person dies, wanting to know what’s left.

Romola

I did PoAs online for myself and DH (now deceased).
I found it pretty straightforward, but tedious. Okay if you aren't time-poor.
If you get someone else e.g. solicitor's minion to do it, that's not cheap and you still have to do a certain amount of running around yourself .

Ours were prepared by a solicitor. We did no ‘running around’ other than attending his office.
I wonder what a ‘solicitor’s minion’ is - I had qualified assistants.

Witzend

You might tell her, OP, that if she doesn’t allow her family to have P of A, then if it’s needed later for whatever reason, social services will take control. Some older people are very wary of having SS poking their noses into their affairs (as they see it) so that might just help.

Social Services don’t have the powers to take over someone’s affairs in these circumstances. If the person wont make an LPA and subsequently become unable to manage their own affairs, the persons’ family have to apply to the Office of the Public Guardian, to have the court of family protection appoint an independent deputy handle their affairs.

I did PoAs online for myself and DH (now deceased).
I found it pretty straightforward, but tedious. Okay if you aren't time-poor.
If you get someone else e.g. solicitor's minion to do it, that's not cheap and you still have to do a certain amount of running around yourself .

Yes I did Primrose. A very lenient sentence I thought. Disgraceful crime, committed by a so-called carer.

Shinamae

I still haven’t done mine, keep meaning to do it, but then put it off
Is it easy to do online ?

Yes, but you do need to read the instructions carefully and follow them exactly - particularly re witnesses and dating it - or it will be rejected and you’ll have to start (and pay the fee) again.