£600k for 10 years - is that reasonable planning for a home?

Mum was refused continuing health care as she was deemed to ill to be assessed. - this is exactly what I mean about HCPs being ignorant of the qualifying conditions and peddling falsehoods. The assessment is done by those caring for her providing the facts - her inability to be involved in the assessment means that she no doubt qualified.

Research from LSE - ''In the Bupa sample, the average length of stay was 801 days, but with a considerable tail of
long-stayers. Half of residents had died by 462 days. Around 27% of people lived for more than
three years, with the longest stayer living for over 20 years. People had a 55% chance of living
for the first year after admission, which increased to nearly 70% for the second year before
falling back over subsequent years.''

Oh my goodness Nanawind that's terrible x how stressful. How could five weeks be that much? Crazy.

Mum was refused continuing health care as she was deemed to ill to be assessed. She was incontinent, couldn't walk, couldn't feed, dress or bathe herself. Didn't know who or where she was. She had been sent by the hospital to the home after falling and breaking her hip.
She died 2 weeks later.
When the home sent the bill (£8750) she was only in for 5 weeks we as a family explained that we will pay from mums estate when probate was issued.
At first they were OK with that but after a couple of weeks they had a new finance manager WOW that's when it got nasty. Threatened to send the bailiffs. Ended up we got a small loan. When we sent the money they wanted to charge us 5% on top of the base rate per week interest. Fortunately we had a solicitor who was very good and got the interest stopped.

I know first hand how hard it is to look after a loved one with dementia. My mom also had cancer she didn't want to but she lived with me the last 18 months of her life . Even disabled I knew I could look after my mom better than anyone. The last 4 months where hell on earth as dementia killed my mom but her body lived on. She became violent but it was out of fear . She didn't know who she was ,where she was or how I was . She thought I was her mom . And in her none violent times said I love you mom. My mom forgot everything but the one thing she never did was wet or soiled herself. Some part of her realised when she needed the commode and told me. I am proud of the fact even though bedridden my mom never had a sore on her body. I made sure of that .

If anyone things I had hundreds in carers allowed you are wrong . They allowed me 6 months carers allowance of £62.20 a week for 6 months because they said my mom would get better. She had dementia and grade 3 breast cancer she was 90 when she died in 2017.

When my husband was terminal with grade 4 malignant melanoma he was given 4 months to 2 years . DLA as it was in 2003 told him no point in applying as he had years out McMillan nurse filled in the forms he didn't live the 4 months. Carers allowance was £43.30 then. I helped mom look after my dad he died 3 years after my husband. My parents never received a penny to o help with his care . We looked after at their house. I also looked after my mother in law and never had a penny. I hated my mother in law for 40 years until she died but I couldn't not look after her. Her brother didn't sit by her bedside the last 2 days of her life 15 hours a day at the hospital. But the minute she died he turned up.

I never want to go into a home nor do I want my daughter to ever look after me. I have watched 3 people die and each time it was horrific. Hopefully I will keep my marbles and when the time comes I have enough tablets to die as I want. But have no intention of dieing any time. Soon.

The truth is that if everyone who qualified for CHC funding were to get it the whole system would crumble. Either they need to abandon it as too expensive, or they need to make sure that those who qualify get the funding without having to bang their heads against a brick wall or have a degree in the subject.

That is absolutely right, Luckygirl.

Callistemon21

^MissAdventure is right. If you have significant ongoing nursing care needs which meet the Continuing Healthcare criteria, the NHS would fully fund your care^

Meeting those criteria is nigh on impossible.
A family member with dementia, incontinent and unable to move or do anything on their own did not meet the criteria. The cost for a nursing home was £1,600 per week and the family was told that as a higher level of care was needed imminently, the person would need 24 hour care and the cost per week would double.
Another person we know who has reached that stage is being cared for at home but trying to get much help is proving very difficult indeed.

Of course, not everyone will need residential nursing or care.

My late OH met the criteria but was refused twice. I appealed and that was heard after his death via zoom as covid was rife. I knew the system so was able to make sure I had all the correct information with evidence - how many others would be able to do that with no knowledge of it all?

It is a wicked system - people jump through complex hoops without the support of the professionals, because those professionals do not know the system. I was told so many wrong "facts", not because anyone was trying to pull the wool over my eyes but because of their ignorance - I knew more about it than they did.

The truth is that if everyone who qualified for CHC funding were to get it the whole system would crumble. Either they need to abandon it as too expensive, or they need to make sure that those who qualify get the funding without having to bang their heads against a brick wall or have a degree in the subject.

karmalady

£7000 a month right now for a friend. Too many ifs and buts to say what might be needed for ten years care but £600k would not be enough for ten years, inflation has to be factored in. One year right now would be at least £84k

That is about £234 a day, cheaper than some hotel rooms

Interesting point!

We're actually saving for another holiday.

my mom lived with my brother so was not a property owner. She did not get funding despite the fact she was bed bound, did not speak and could do nothing . She had to use her savings but when it went down to just over £22k she got some funding but only on the understanding the family would put money into the system at some point. I signed the form just to get funding but we had no money to contribute if pushed. My mom wanted to die but the law states she had to wait for an extremely painful death . as I don't have a family, I expect that i will have to sell my home to support my care in the future .

Thanks anyway.
If something comes up insecure for me, I err on the side of leaving things.
Better safe than sorry.

Really, it just took me to the LSE library. You can read it as secure pdf though if you just type ‘mean length of stay care homes lse’ into your search engine.

Thank you.

I will have to take your word for that.
When I try to do a search into that link, it tells me it is unsecure.

fancythat

Thanks.
I know the difference between median, mean and mode.

But that doesnt explain where the 2 year figure comes from. Nor the, many will be earlier and the tail off part.
Where does all that come from?

Mean length of stay is 801 days but, as we would expect, there is a significant rightward tail to the distribution. The median length of stay is 462 days, with the maximum being 8725 days (nearly 24 years).
eprints.lse.ac.uk › ...PDF
Length of stay in care homes - LSE Research Online

That was to vegansrock.

Thanks.
I know the difference between median, mean and mode.

But that doesnt explain where the 2 year figure comes from. Nor the, many will be earlier and the tail off part.
Where does all that come from?

S
Awful practice doesnt just happen in lower budget homes.
Nice furnishings do not mean a better standard of care.

That is down to the manager, the staff and the general ethos amongst staff.

It should be remembered that receiving care at home is often more expensive than going into a home as there are all the existing costs of running a household on top of paying for the care.

With dementia there is time to plan and act. In the event of a catastrophic stroke, my LPA dictates that I am not to be kept alive by artificial means and that food and liquids are to be withheld with a view to death ensuing as quickly as possible.

fancythat

M0nica
The average length of stay in a care home is two years so, while there will be the occasional person who is there much longer, they will be the exception not the rule.
Doesnt that mean that half the people will be there longer, and half less?
No fancythat that’s not how averages work - you are thinking of the median , which is the middle figure in a set of numbers. Average would be the total number of years in a care home divided by the number of people- if the average is 2 years, then more people could be below 2 years than above if there are a few who are in the home for 10 years and way more in the home for less than 2. So most people don’t live that long after being admitted to a care home.

I dont think there are many people that would choose to go into a home, I do not intend to, however if you have a stroke or dementia ,amongst other conditions, that is where you will probably go.

My husband was fast tracked to a nursing home from hospital . It was funded and then reviewed every 3 months.He was terminally ill with stage 4 cancer. I was offered a list to go and visit the Homes so l could choose for him. Most of them were dire and smelt of urine or strong sickly air freshners..no ensuite and several shared rooms.Residents just sitting in a lounge in wing chairs staring into space.l couldn't put him there. I had been looking after him at home for 6 weeks with carers and an installed hospital bed...but unfortunately he got septicemia from a bladder infection cos of pulling his caffeter out. He was taken to hospital but when he got better they needed the beds so hence he was fast tracked to a nursing home .Being back home at this stage wouldn't have worked. He had no idea what was going on around him.
The cost of these"dire ' nursing homes were about 850 / 900 (2 years ago) per week. I live in Cheshire.
I asked to see some out of the area and managed to get him into a lovely home. It cost 1300 a week (2 years ago) When you are funded and fast tracked you are not allowed to top up the budget to get a better home .So we were unusually lucky to have this home approved for funding. .After a while my husband became very happy there and he just got fitter and stronger. He was racing around the care home and gardens in his wheelchair. The staff treated the residents with such respect and friendliness but some of the agency nursing staff used at night were dreadful. Probably because they worked in homes where it was acceptable. Fortunately it didn't happen too often.
The weekly visiting senior nurse practitioner got him off of many of the drugs that the hospice doctors had put him on and he started to think clearly .He had a beautiful room overlooking a canal , excellent food ,entertainment , (proper musicians etc).Freedom to make tea or coffee in a little side room even in the middle of the night and he was allowed whiskey etc in his room which also had a fridge. At 6 months he was ready to come home and is still here one year later.He started this journey of "care" 2 years ago after ,being admitted to a Hospice on end of life care. then released to me at home. l was told he had 2 months to live .I am not being unkind about the lower budget care homes or saying they are all like that .To really understand you have to see for yourself. So when people are planning how much their care should they need it... factor in that what you pay for is generally what you get. I am pretty sure my husband would not have survived in a bad nursing home. And out life today is more gentle but we are enjoying it...we even have a little narrowboat . Of course he is still living with stage 4 prostate cancer but l am very thank full to that Nursing home.

Germanshepherdsmum

Nor me. I don’t understand why people save up in order to go into these places and have their bums wiped. What a waste of money.

I also have absolutely no intention of leaving my home..

Nor me. I don’t understand why people save up in order to go into these places and have their bums wiped. What a waste of money.

Your plan is the same as mine BigLouis. I have no intention of going into a care home

They sound like horrendous places to me. I dont want to end up having someone else wipe my bum.

biglouis

Having told anyone who might spoil your plans that you are staying with friends for a few days in an area with poor wifi. Wouldnt it be simpler and cheaper to get some barbiturates and go to bed?

These would be my plans.

I'd feel I'd have to have a huge declutter, tidy and spring clean first!

We never know, though, do we. We may never need care or we might not be in a position to help ourselves.

I hear about people who do go very suddenly and it seems the best way for them although extremely upsetting for friends and family.