£600k for 10 years - is that reasonable planning for a home?

Around 40 years ago my FIL developed dementia. To start with he and MIL were provided (free of charge) by the local Council with a daily "Home Help". Later as his condition worsened, He was admitted to an NHS ward for men with dementia and similar conditions. He was quite happy there - in his mind he thought he was back in the army, living in a barracks and giving his name rank and number when asked. There was no charge and MIL continue to collect his state pension every week along with her own one.

Fast forward some 40 years and his son - my DH - also developed dementia. I cared for him at home until I could no longer cope and I fought for and won a place for him in the nearby Council run "Best ever Care Home". The fees were huge, although ameliorated somewhat by the Scottish Government's Free Personal Care element. Our savings had just dwindled down to the the limit where the Local Authority would start to pay the fees, when he died.

It is amazing to think that financially MIL & FIL were much better served by the system "way back when" than we were under the current system.

Your plan is the same as mine BigLouis. I have no intention of going into a care home.

M0nica

*Fancythat*,No that is the median. I think this distribution will be bunched up towards the shorter times in care witha long tail. The average will be well to the left of the median

Genuinely interested as to what you are baseing all that on.

Purely anecdotely, that is not my experience of it all. But I dont know enough.

This is very much on my mind at the moment as mum moved into a care home this week following a stroke in December
We are self funded but I'm looking into a care home annuity at thr moment

Have watched programmes about Dignitas.

If anyone thinks they end their days in a beautiful hotel room with breathtaking views as you slip away, you couldn’t be more wrong.

A poky little room, clinical and bare. Looked a very dismal end and costing a lot.

I don't know about today's prices . But 6 years ago my brother's ex mother in law was in a home that had dementia and Alzheimer's residents it cost £1,000 a week . She lived there for 4 years before she died there was no money left from sale of her house or savings when she died .

Having told anyone who might spoil your plans that you are staying with friends for a few days in an area with poor wifi. Wouldnt it be simpler and cheaper to get some barbiturates and go to bed?

These would be my plans.

It's not simple to 'go to Switzerland'. There are medically proven pre-requisites that have to be met, someone to accompany you that could be prosecuted on their return (whilst l don't think this is happened the law is not in their favour). Also has to be someone who can live with what you are choosing to do - l doubt I'd have anyone l could put through that. You also have to administer the fatal dose yourself - physically not difficult but psychologically impossible for some. Cost is £10,000+ it's not a poor person's exit unfortunately - only the wealthy have the choice. Pressing for the right to die in the UK is key. Happy days!

Same here, callistemon..

A cap would help and seems reasonable - for example if they set it at £150,000.
But this would mean it would wipe out the savings of those who only had £150,000 - whilst others with £800,000 would get to save a lot of the money they had for other things! Maybe a percentage of savings could be the cap? If you have a house worth £400,000 it would be no more than half of it to be counted towards came home fees? That's probably not perfect or workable either. I think I would prefer to go to Switzerland I'm afraid. And afraid of the type of care available. My aunt recently died , I remember she called the buzzer on one occasion - and noone ever came. It was a top rated private home.

I can't imagine how hard it must be to care for a spouse with dementia, or a parent.
I was always very glad to finish my shifts when I worked in care homes.

MissAdventure

How can dementia not tick each and every one of the boxes for funding?

It really makes me angry.

A friend of mine whose husband had dementia said she couldn’t understand why she had no help at all for his condition

How can dementia not tick each and every one of the boxes for funding?

It really makes me angry.

Don’t forget that we may eventually see a care cap introduced but I am not holding my breath. A cap of £86,000 was supposed to start in October 2023. However the government postponed the start of the scheme until October 2025.

As I understand it, the cap will only cover residential care, nursing care and support with washing, dressing, eating and taking medication. It will not include food, energy bills and accommodation.

Care UK have examples of how this will work if it does ever happen:

www.careuk.com/where-do-i-start/what-affects-cost/what-the-care-home-fees-cap-means-for-you

Fancythat,No that is the median. I think this distribution will be bunched up towards the shorter times in care witha long tail. The average will be well to the left of the median

£7000 a month right now for a friend. Too many ifs and buts to say what might be needed for ten years care but £600k would not be enough for ten years, inflation has to be factored in. One year right now would be at least £84k

That is about £234 a day, cheaper than some hotel rooms

I don't know, MayBee

Perhaps we should find out more!

Callistemon21

I would make arrangements to go to Switzerland rather than fund the lifestyle of hedge fund managers and billionaires who pay their care home staff the lowest wages they can get away with.

I know this sounds awfully morbid but I was going to pay for a Pure cremation to save my kids any hassle but it then occurred to me that it would be a waste of money if I went to Switzerland ( I assume it doesn’t cover that scenario )

Seems people need to save as much as they possibly can, doesn't it? IMO end of life care is why people save as much as possible - good quality care for how ever long (a few months up to many many years).

Casdon

Callistemon21

MissAdventure is right. If you have significant ongoing nursing care needs which meet the Continuing Healthcare criteria, the NHS would fully fund your care

Meeting those criteria is nigh on impossible.
A family member with dementia, incontinent and unable to move or do anything on their own did not meet the criteria. The cost for a nursing home was £1,600 per week and the family was told that as a higher level of care was needed imminently, the person would need 24 hour care and the cost per week would double.
Another person we know who has reached that stage is being cared for at home but trying to get much help is proving very difficult indeed.

Of course, not everyone will need residential nursing or care.

The bar is certainly set very high, I looked it up, and 104,000 people in England were granted CHC funding in a year. It covers complex nursing care at home as well as people in care homes.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06128/#:~:text=In%202021%2F22%2C%20104%2C400%20people,whose%20situation%20is%20deteriorating%20quickly.

You’re not wrong.
For some years I looked out on 3 cars that collectively cost
£360,0000. I know how much they cost because my son in law sold them to the family.
The family owned a care home.

M0nica

The average length of stay in a care home is two years so, while there will be the occasional person who is there much longer, they will be the exception not the rule.

Doesnt that mean that half the people will be there longer, and half less?

Callistemon21

I would make arrangements to go to Switzerland rather than fund the lifestyle of hedge fund managers and billionaires who pay their care home staff the lowest wages they can get away with.

Me too. In the early 70s I did some temping and worked for a few weeks doing admin for a senior doctor. He was working his notice and told me all about the care home he was about to open. He described it as a licence to print money and planned to retire before he turned 50. He was very upfront about the fact that he wouldn’t have to pay his staff much.

The average length of stay in a care home is two years so, while there will be the occasional person who is there much longer, they will be the exception not the rule.

I'm sure there are changes afoot with the dementia status, in terms of funding.

And so there should be!

My Mum was in a dementia care home from 2000 for seven years and then a nursing care home for nearly three years until her death, the cost averaged out about £75k pa, I imagine it’s more now. She was self funding.