FRIEND OF MINE RECENTLY BEEN TURNED INTO A CARER

Esmay - well what else could logically happen except a son washing the mother as well - given it had all fallen to him? Was mother just supposed to go dirty then? This is one of the tasks my friend is having to do at present - and he finds it not particularly appropriate to do that - but it's him or no-one and so he does. Mental note to self - must ask him what their bathroom set-up is in the event.....as I'd be willing to bet it's one bathroom, with a bath in and no shower or (if there is a shower) it's over the bath. I'd be very surprised if their house is at all modern and well-designed or anything.

Showers are a thing of themselves and cue for me trying to persuade my parents (make that my mother - as she always made all their decisions for them both) to rip out the bath from the only bathroom the house had and replace it with a shower just-in-case. It took her having to go into hospital for a hip replacement operation before she agreed and an emergency job was done of doing just that (fortunately they live in an area of the country with normal level tradesperson availability and efficiency - so that didn't turn into a problem of itself. They said the job must be done and very soon after = it was done and to a decent standard). So thank goodness for that being the norm there and I was just left thinking "Why on earth did she choose an old-size shower cubicle though? There's room there to put in a modern-size one". I just took it as read when I had the bathroom out in my own house that mine was going to be modern-size (as one that size can readily have things like grip rails and a chair fitted into them). I've seen exactly that has been done in a neighbours tiny bathroom - ie a chair etc has been added into their modern size shower.

CariadAgain -

How horrible.
My goodness sorry to say it ,but your brother seems to be breathtakingly selfish.

I had lunch with one of my friends last Christmas and she was smarting over her sister's cyptic card .
The message didn't seem that offensive to me - perhaps subtle.
She was trying to get her to contact their parents .
The sister ,one of a big family has been tasked with the care of both parents.
Shes plainly finding it a strain.
I didn't know that my friend hasn't visited them for years and doesn't phone either .

It's a few years since one of my mother's old friends died .

But I recall the unpleasantness over her care.

Her only son did ALL of it and one of his sisters told him that it was disgusting that he washed her.
Caring for a parent isn't just a visit with flowers,chocolate and criticism.

Esmay

It's a very difficult decision to make .
I've noticed that it causes rows in some families .
One person seems to do the lion's share.

I've certainly seen that time and again by now. Even in this day and age it does still tend to be the woman out of a pair of "children" that ends up in that position usually. My friend in this case is the first man I've had "telling me all about it" re being a carer - but I've had a noticeable number of women doing so prior to him though.

I've not forgotten my erstwhile brothers reaction when I told him that I was moving to Wales. His first words were "What about mother?" to which my reply was along the lines of "Well what were YOU thinking?". He'd felt quite free years before to move himself/his wife and the two grandchildren our parents doted on further up in England and not say anything at all to me (as per usual) and the news on that got relayed to me via our parents. So it was okay for him to move on - but apparently not for me to move. He just couldnt seem to see that either we both could or neither of us could - it wasnt a case of "he could - but I couldnt".

Add the fact that - as he well knew - he was by far her favourite child. She never really liked me and would keep trying to "mould me" anyway - whereas I never spotted any attempts to "mould" him.

I resisted telling him that our father had told me years before that she would try and move me into being a "carer" for her and told me not to do it - as she'd "drive you mad" and it wouldnt work out to use his words about it. Brother totally overlooked the fact that (courtesy of the family he had married into basically) his move elsewhere was a case of moving to a much more expensive house (it is pretty expensive!) - but mine as a single person was to a cheaper area...because I couldnt stay in a damp little starter house any longer and our houseprices meant that to get a more suitable one I had to move to a cheaper area. He had the option to stay put - and realistically I didnt.

Yep......my erstwhile brother who'd told me off for not doing this and his wife wasted absolutely no time in getting the message over subsequently to our parents that they'd just had a "granny flat" type building done in their nice long back garden. I'd seen all the photos and boasts about it on sister-in-laws Facebook page before the thought struck her I might find and read it one day (too late - I already had!). That message got put through just after our fathers health took another dive - and it was instantly coupled with the comment "Our youngest son (21 at the time) has just moved into it. It's for HIM - isn't that nice he's got that....he really likes that". Cue for by the time I got back to Devon to see how things were going they'd both been firmly told umpteen times already just how nice the granny flat would be for youngest son (errrm....their house is NOT a small one and the two of them had a home gym as well as their room each...plenty of room for him to have stayed living in that!). I saw all the photos - before she clicked and deleted them (too late!) and it was custom-built to their specifications - with bedroom/bathroom/sitting room/kitchen and it looked very nice and very expensive - and would have done nicely for mother actually. Basically it was a whole new posh nice 2nd home - but in their back garden. But they'd already told her clearly it wouldnt be hers and she'd accepted that (because her "beloved son" could do no wrong - in her eyes).

I'm not in the slightest bit surprised it causes rows in some families - probably most of them and, if there isn't a row, it's probably because the woman out of the "children" is too meek to stand up for herself most of the time. I would say, in fact, that a lot of women in our generation got attempted moulding from Day 1:
- Not encouraged to study hard by the mother. Mother wants the daughter to only get a low-level job (one she can manage to get even in a smaller place and not a career - as that might involve her moving away)
- Encouraged to regard helping with housework as her lot - whilst she sees her brother not being expected to help with the housework

and it all starts there in a lot of families from "our era" and most women in our generation that have had that attempted "moulding" going on probably arent even aware that maybe some of "their" decisions arent really theirs...but have been sorta wheedled onto them surreptitiously. Coulda been worse - at least most of us were brought up in British families and therefore there was a limit to just how much of that could be done....as we are all well aware the fact our bodies are female is totally absolutely irrelevant and we are due to have exactly the same lifechoices as our brothers do. So - at least thank goodness for being British - so there was only so far that someone else's "life agenda for us" could get wheedled onto us.

It's a very difficult decision to make .
I've noticed that it causes rows in some families .
One person seems to do the lion's share.

Ah-ha. Just asked ChatGPT where the Mobilise group is - as I couldnt find it.

It said www.mobiliseonline.co.uk

and there's a Facebook group too.

He doesn't do Facebook - but it would fit in with his way of operating to check out the website.

Sorry, I meant to correct that, Win. You are right, the son gets the Carer's Allowance at the moment and they could apply for Attendance Allowance to pay for additional help.

icanhandthemback

They do not have to use carers from an agency with their rigid times they can attend. Your friend needs to list all the care his parents need. Usually this encompasses feeding, washing, dressing, mobility, using the toilet, etc., but it also includes requiring help in terms of maintaining independence, social interaction and protection from vulnerable situations. If both parents need care, they should each have a properly structured care plan. Fight to get the amount he thinks they need to cover all those situations. The Carer's allowance will be for all the other things they won't pay for like cleaning, washing, etc.
Once the care plan is agreed they need to do a financial assessment to see how much the parents will have to contribute towards the care.
If they are entitled to care based on their Financial Assessment ask to receive their funding as a direct payment ensuring they also pay for a company to run payroll, includes holiday pay, holiday cover and any other charges an employer needs to make. That way they can find someone who will come in at a time to suit the parents.

There will be no carers allowance at their ages. There may be AA if they are self funding but if even part funded that goes too.

They do not have to use carers from an agency with their rigid times they can attend. Your friend needs to list all the care his parents need. Usually this encompasses feeding, washing, dressing, mobility, using the toilet, etc., but it also includes requiring help in terms of maintaining independence, social interaction and protection from vulnerable situations. If both parents need care, they should each have a properly structured care plan. Fight to get the amount he thinks they need to cover all those situations. The Carer's allowance will be for all the other things they won't pay for like cleaning, washing, etc.
Once the care plan is agreed they need to do a financial assessment to see how much the parents will have to contribute towards the care.
If they are entitled to care based on their Financial Assessment ask to receive their funding as a direct payment ensuring they also pay for a company to run payroll, includes holiday pay, holiday cover and any other charges an employer needs to make. That way they can find someone who will come in at a time to suit the parents.

Pinkrinse - do you have a link for that Mobilise group please? I tried googling and it didnt come up.

I know myself - quite some time ago and in a very different context I certainly found the benefit myself of a support group for something I was involved with. It helped me emotionally and I managed to get a particular fact I'd noticed about the issue concerned "out there" and widely known. I'd realised what was what about an aspect of it all - and that did it = I told the support network...

Sleepyhead52

I wonder if he is their only 'child' or if he has siblings who could share the responsibilities. It sounds as if they are resisting having help and he, understandably, doesn't want them ti go into care. Social Services will, of course, allow/encourage any family or friends to carry on for as long as they can. The only thing that occurs is that they could each claim carer's allowance for the other, doubling the income, if they aren't doing that already. Sorry not to have more to offer.

I’m a full time carer for my husband (4years) he doesn’t have to do this nor should he be forced into it. It is not his responsibility to look after his parents. Social services should supply care and his parents may need to contribute depending on their savings and income.

I belong to a good support system on social media. Mobilise, it’s for carers and there’s also lots of good information, and some professionals who can point you in the right direction. Very good.
Age concern are a
So very helpful and worth a phone call. Also Independant Age they are both charities.

He needs to keep repeating g to social services, I am not able to look after my parents. If they have money then he should organise care for them.good luck.

He just needs to tell his local council that the current situation is not sustainable, the council have an obligation to respond to a request for assessment and if his parents have eligible needs under the Care Act then then to meet assessed needs

How about asking for direct payments from social work to employ a carer direct to help his parents, or a carers assessment for him to see what your friends needs or employ someone privately when need might just be a few hours a day when they are needed. Think outside the box around his parents need and your friend.

win

REKA

My neighbour's parents got 2 lots of carers allowance payment for caring for the other.

if you are over 65 you do not get carers allowance, you are most likely talking about Attendance Allowance, which they get for themself and not for each other.

Correct. It still really annoys me though that many of us who are retired receive not a single penny for caring 24/7 for a spouse or partner. I know the argument from some will be that we get our state pension instead of carers allowance but we’ve paid for that over our working lives. We are entitled to it. Being a carer is entirely different.

I can hand on heart say that I work harder now than at any time in my life and am on call all day and night.

Peaseblossom

*butterandjam" what is LPOA?

Lasting Power of Attorney

REKA

My neighbour's parents got 2 lots of carers allowance payment for caring for the other.

if you are over 65 you do not get carers allowance, you are most likely talking about Attendance Allowance, which they get for themself and not for each other.

butterandjam

His parents both need to claim disability payments Social Services should be advising on which benefits they are entitled to. For that he needs a journal of their existing care needs ( help feeding, hygeine, toilet , dressing, medication, finance, shopping, housework and laundry, the lot)

If they still have capacity, he needs to arrange LPOA for both asap. That would give him authority to arrange their care.

They each need a care assessment, he does not have to do that, Social services does that, but there is a waiting list
For him to be able to make decisions they both have to not have capacity, he cannot make decision. even with a POA if they have capacity. No one has to care, if he does not want to Social services has a duty to care, so once the care assessment is done they can have carers accordingly if indeed they qualify. They do not pay for a care home unless they have savings over £23,500 each, the house is disregarded whilst one of them live in it. He will only get carers allowance if he cares 35 hours or more. They can however get Attendance Allowance whilst they are self funding. You do not get turned in to being a carer unless you agree, no-one can make you. Of course he is tired it es exhausting being a family carer with disturbed nights and 24/7 care. Yes both his sister and he can claim carers allowance if they earn less than £196 per week (after tax, National Insurance, and allowable expenses) once you earn more your Carer’s Allowance is stopped. If you exceed this limit, even by a small amount, you will lose your entire £83.30 weekly benefit.

My neighbour's parents got 2 lots of carers allowance payment for caring for the other.

Peaseblossom

*butterandjam" what is LPOA?

Lasting Power of Attorney. Often discussed in GN.

Isn't it Carers Allowance that can be claimed if you provide 35 hours per week of care. Would also agree SS will try to delegate care to anyone other than their own services. If euther if tge couple have no funds to pay for care (be self funding) social services will support financially.

*butterandjam" what is LPOA?

Witzend

Bluntly, he will need to tell Social Services that he NEEDS to go back to work, he cannot afford not to, and so from X date he will not be available to act as carer for his parents, who will be ‘vulnerable’ and ‘at risk’ - these are apparently the buzzwords.

It is very common for SS to try to persuade or guilt relatives into providing necessary care - understandably, since it’s cheaper for them.

As for elderly people who refuse carers, since they only want relatives to perform such duties (TBH this is VERY common!) they will have to be told that it’s outside carers, or nothing.

Yes, I know this all sounds harsh, but this sort of situation is all too common.

Sounds very much like the "frame of mind" advocated by my ex Social Services work colleague decades back if it ever came to it (ie she foresaw it as a possibility in my case in years to come) applies.

I can certainly see your thinking on that - ie telling them "Would you like to try living on £83 a week indefinitely? I've got bills to pay on my own house and I have to live one way or another". Yep...liking the idea of presenting them with a sort of checklist in effect of "It costs me £x per month for my own bills and to have a reasonably normal sort of life. The shortfall - if all I get is £83 per week = comes to hundreds of £s a month. Are you going to pay that? Thought not...."

I can understand as well why an elderly person would want a carer to be a relative - but it is rather selfish in a lot of ways....as that takes I don't know how many years out of their "childs" life and it's an indefinite amount. I've not asked my friend how old his parents are - I am guessing at late 70's/early 80's maybe? Well I know I was shocked when I moved here and saw some obituary columns in the local paper and realised many of the people concerned were in their 90's. Early 90's is not uncommon here. Late 70's to early 90's potentially could mean around 15 years!!!!! A long time to lose money and lose one's Life for.

I think I'm going to have to make it plainer to my friend that his mother can't say "Oh I can't be ready to have a carer give me my breakfast at 7 a.m. - I want it later". 7 a.m. isnt a bad sort of time actually to have one's breakfast - even if it would be preferred at 9 a.m. for instance. His parents are going to have to do a bit of "flexing with the wind" imo. I'm the first person to agree "No - of course people can't be expected to be put to bed at 7pm of an evening". But 7 am of a morning for breakfast doesnt - to my mind - fall under the banner of "unreasonable".

I wonder if Health and Social Care have assessed their needs? This is going nowhere until that is done and it gives him the opportunity to express his position also.

Grannynannywanny

Sorry to contradict you ExDancer but carer allowance is paid directly to the carer. What you are describing sounds like attendance allowance and it does sound like the parents are eligible if they’re not already receiving it.

This is correct 👌

As Silver lining said he needs to move out. Give social services a date. In the mean time go back to work. Leave the house at 8 am. Ask for cSrers to come in 3 times in his absence 5 days a week. social services need to sort that out with his parents. He may whilst he is there decide to cover at weekends and this will give him the hours he needs to put in to cover his carers allowance for 35 hour work.

Thanks all for the helpful thoughts.

I know I'll be interested to start with to see if his startled reaction as to just how much a nearby house is up for rent for when I told him has turned into him investigating just how much he thinks their house could be rented for. It's up for a lot more than he thought it would be - it's hundreds of £s more a month than he thought it would be. So hopefully that's got him thinking down those lines to start with - to see if there are possibilities re paying for carehomes. I don't know what sort of state his parents house is in - though I'm not optimistic on that front from what he's said over time about it (and it may be like a lot I've noticed - ie needing a lot of work and functioning rather illogically) - but I may be wrong and it may be more "together" (ie modern and workable) than I've been assuming it is.

I do know his father is extremely stubborn from what he's said about him over time and we shall see - my friend isn't a "weak" sort of person and I think he should be capable of being "firmer" where necessary (whether with demanding parents or demanding Social Services). I've seen him be quite "firm" about investigating things and making up his own mind about things since first encountering him apres 2020....so we shall see....He's a teacher by training and inclination...but also got DIY type skills.....so maybes.....

So we'll see what happens about that possibility or otherwise. I do know decades ago one of my "cousins" (aka aunt in fact) made a noticeable amount renting out my "aunt" (grandmothers) house and that went a long way towards paying the cost of her carehome (which I saw - and it was a decent one/not cheapest possible for sure). So maybe there's some "room for manoeuvre" factoring these things together.