Child Poverty

Great news.

Sorry oldbatty, it often irritates me when people ask ‘ where can I get that?’ I always think why don’t they njust google it??
Anyway I have done now and got the details so I’ll give them a ring in the New Year and have a chat. I do go away or visit my DD in Aus for quite a long stretch every year but they may be able to accommodate that.

Sorry, not being rude Pamela but have a google. It might be something worth a look.

What is home start oldbatty?

Granny 23, what an interesting account you give. I understand the context too , having spent time in Scotland as a child.

Pamela, you make excellent points.....and sadly I have no answers. Maybe something like Homestart may suit you? It does appear as though common sense has left the building though. It would be nice to offer practical help. Some places have a skill swap scheme?

I completely agree with PamelaJ1, attitudes to poverty do need to change. I started working at our local food bank earlier this year and am appalled at the level of poverty in the town. It’s not a comfortable subject and too often overlooked by those not affected. One of the food bank staff was invited to give a talk at the local Rotary Club and one of the Rotarian’s (if that’s the right word) wives said: “ Are you telling me there are people in our town who cannot afford to feed their children ? I don’t believe you”.

At the food bank, I have met people who no fault of their own, maybe illness, job loss, greedy landlords increasing the rent, bereavement for example, have to resort to the food bank. They don’t want to be there, but have no option and they are all struggling to improve their situations, but it’s not helped by pretending poverty doesn’t exist.

Actually you can now progress from healthcare assistant qualified nurse www.rcn.org.uk/professional-development/your-career/hca/career-paths-for-hcas
You can also do on the job training for teaching through the teaching assistant route.
I believe the legal system has legal associates and para-legals who can go on to have more qualifications.
So there are routes and possibly more than there ever were. The problem is middle class children take them up.

oldbatty, of course you do need to care and have compassion but it’s more than that.
If I donate to the food bank, or donate toys at Christmas I’m helping with their immediate problem but not really helping them to get on in life.
I couldn’t offer some childcare to help them go to work because of all the red tape, or find a few hours a week cleaning or gardening without impacting on their benefits .
I can’t really see how anything that I may be able to offer would be viable.
Maybe you have some ideas?

Grandma70s I did go to a good primary school (I was Dux) and went on to a superb Secondary, a selective Academy. There I was often 'top of the year' but no one (except my female French Teacher) raised an eyebrow when I left at 15 to go to work, just a month before the O level exams. I left because, simultaneously, my DM stopped work due to ill health and my DF, who was a shift worker was relocated to a new power station which could not be reached via public transport and too far away for him to cycle.. Hence he had to have a car. It may seem ludicrous that, in effect I left school to earn £5.00 a week so that my father could buy an old car but that was necessary for the family finances.
from my big Sister until we mastered my GM's old singer sewing machine and made our own.

I went to night school to catch up on my lost qualifications, was rapidly promoted at work and when I left to have my 1st baby I was earning the same as my DH. No maternity leave, no pension rights, our income was halved at a stroke.

Not so my 1.5yr older sister who was allowed to stay at school to sit her highers, went straight into a 'career' in the Civil Service, had maternity leave with pay and rose through the ranks, eventually retiring at 55 with a large index linked pension. She is indisputably Middle Class whereas I and my DH, having both worked 2 jobs for most of our working lives survive on a less than full state pension and miniscule self funded private pensions.

It is 'circumstances' that determine our progress (or downward slide) through life. Some get an easy ride, some work hard to stand still and anyone can be hit by an accident, illness, disability, redundancy, or caring responsibilities which destroys their aspirations/expectations

trisher the biggest obstacle to social change is the way we have made having a degree the only way into almost every profession, including nursing.

That's a good point M0nica, especially for professions like nursing where some may need a degree or more, but others may make excellent nurses but cannot afford, or do not want, to go through the university entry. The only alternative seems to be healthcare assistant, whereas years ago SEN was a good route in.

There are apprenticeships into the professions these days but they are few and far between - one of my family is doing one but only 2 out of 400 applicants were taken on that year by the firm.

trisher the biggest obstacle to social change is the way we have made having a degree the only way into almost every profession, including nursing.

50 years ago when I started work, you could get into every profession including law and finance, without a degree. Your training would be longer, there would be more exams to pass. But you could get there.

I had a friend who dropped out of school after O levels. and at 20 decided to become a solicitor. She signed and apprenticeship (or articles, as it was called then) for 5 years and was paid through out her training. She studied through day release and short courses and at 25 became a solicitor. She had a very successful career and retired as a judge,

Nowadays she would have to go back to college,probably full time, to get three good A levels, go to university for three years then do three years work experience. She would have been unable to work for three years, and have £50,000 of debt. She would also be 27 before she qualified.

I think we should fray the skirts of the professions, have more ways into them that do not require degrees. Make it easier for children from disadvantaged homes, who are determined and hard working, to know that these professions are open to them at a price they can afford - low wages for a few years, but no debt.

Can people now not take the same route? Do some people just accept that being poor is their lot in life, and not try to change the situation? Is it really impossible for some people to ‘better themselves’?
I'm not sure that it is as simple as that, Grandma70s

Yes, some people do have the intelligence, the ambition and determination to make a better life for themselves, see the opportunities and seize them.
However, not everyone has these attributes, sometimes they may have one without the other.
There is also lack of opportunity and the fact that education may be patchy - some pupils are so disruptive that those who want to learn may find it difficult unfortunately.
trisher has already said what I was going to post about further education, higher education etc.

Added to which, perhaps parents are ground down with managing day-to-day, their expectations are low and they may have passed this attitude on to their children. It takes a child with a strong personality and determination to break out of their norm - some do and achieve well, many do not.

We don’t want to pay any more taxes though do we?
I think we should.

If we want decent services we have to pay for them.

ps and this govt. doesn't want to help.

Grandma70s - a few people have hinted that the introduction of the welfare state, care from cradle to grave, has reduced people's motivation to strive. I'm not saying I agree, but it's a valid point.
Another result has been the reduction of voluntary charity organisations - I think they've lost govt. support in recent years in things like grants and tax allowances. We've become more dependent on the govt. for help.

Marydoll thanks for your post about your life and it does reveal the answer to much of what Grandma70s asked. Why there is now so little movement and some are stuck in poverty.
A Saturday job at 14 is rare occurrence these days. Even at 16 children from poor homes are competing with their better off associates for such jobs They may not be as well dressed, will not have the polished, printed CV, or references from the well-connected. They have probably attended a school where staff and resources were stretched and will not have such good qualifications.
If they do have great qualifications they may not go to university because of the debt they will incur. If they don't go they are probably stuck in the trap of low paid jobs in the service sector. No manufacturing jobs now.
They will not, as their parents and grandarents did, qualify for social housing, because there isn't any. They will be reliant on private housing and rising rents.
Education may be the way out of povery but it is now a way blocked and obstructed on every inch and very few manage to find their way through.

That’s very interesting, Marydoll. Thank you. Determination can get you a long way.

As I have said before, I was brought up in a very poor home, mainly due to my father's chronic ill health.
This is certainly not a poor me story, it's to illustrate why I am passionate about education and supporting those living in poverty. My childhood has made me a very resilient person.
I was determined to make a better life for myself . I got a Saturday job at 14, was paid 12/6 for the day. I got home, my mother took EVERY penny off me, I got nothing, I worked over the summer holidays, my mother took all my wages, gave me back my bus fairs.
When I was 17, I was accepted for university, my mother's words were not words of joy, instead she said: Put that stupid idea out of your head, people like us, don't go to university.
I decided I was going regardless. I got a very small grant, as my father was on invalidity benefit, so the state was already "supporting" us. My mother took most of that, said it was to pay for my keep.
I got a job in a working man's club as a barmaid, worked every weekend and often during the week. It was a hard time, trying to study and work at the same time.
When I was at university, I should have spent a year abroad as part of my degree, I didn't go, as there was no money to support a year abroad. I was too ashamed to tell anyone this, just changed subjects.
I eventually got my degree, met my husband and got married, without any help from my parents.
Despite bouts of chronic illness, I did a teaching post grad, followed by another degree and became a teacher.
I was always telling my pupils that education is the way out of poverty. It's not easy, can take years, but it will be worth it.
I wonder if nowadays, some people are so beaten by living in poverty that they have given up hope.

I am curious about why some people are stuck with being poor and some are not. I’m not talking about people with chronic illness or disability, but just ordinary families. If I look at my own family history, a few generations ago on my mother’s side the children were working in the cotton mills from the age of ten or so. Then as time went on, the family rose higher up the social scale by means of education, and are now distinctly middle class, if not rich. Can people now not take the same route? Do some people just accept that being poor is their lot in life, and not try to change the situation? Is it really impossible for some people to ‘better themselves’?

These are genuine questions. I am not criticising anyone. I just wonder if there is something about society now that means people try less hard than they once did.

Heating or food? Myself or the children? These are the " choices" people face.

Marthjolly, well said.
I discovered that our local food bank were desperate for nappies and sanitary products. That is shameful in this day and age, that people have to go to foodbanks to ask for them.

To walk in the shoes of a struggling single parent for a month, or a even a dual parent family on zero hours, would change the attitudes of those who assume they know the facts but who really know nothing

In order to make change you have to care and you have to have empathy.

Lots of people prefer to hide behind their walls and believe they are superior.

I agree PamelaJ1 and sadly it’s often those with the least to give that seem to give the most . There are a huge amount of people who think “I’m alright Jack” .

People think that anyone can just walk into a food bank when in fact you have to be referred, so no one can be accused of scrounging . It’s just a shame they have to exist at all .

Maybe our attitudes towards those on poverty need to change. I know people who think that those who go to foodbanks are ‘on the fiddle’!
I agree that there is a lot of poverty and we expect the government to fix it. We don’t want to pay any more taxes though do we? We don’t trust the various departments to to the job properly.
So what do we do then. Is it up to us?
Probably but until we are genuinely concerned about it we’ll all carry on as we are.
I am quite aware that many on here do a lot of charity work and donate to various groups as individuals but there has to be a huge change in attitude across the country before much will change.
Any good ideas on how to get the ball rolling?