And here's one you stroked last year........

I have eaten a lot of strange things on my travels, such as sea urchins, which just taste of brine. I have never had 'gippy tummy' even in The Far East or Egypt. I was born in 1940 and we ate what we could and nothing was wasted - tripe, trotters, chitterlings, sheep's head brawn (horrible.) I stil enjoy kidneys and liver and all the bits that the French make use of!
If those little lambs were not destined for the table, they would not exist.
I have cut down on red meat for reasons of economy and health but I still love roast lamb with mint sauce.

Question for Greatnan ...when you spoke of halal meat and buying it because it wasn't labelled as such ...would I be correct in thinking you were talking shopping in France??

No, Jacey, the halal meat is labelled as such in most French supermarkets. I saw a BBC programme some time ago and it seems most meat in UK supermarkets, hospitals, care homes and schools is halal.

Oh!! I didn't know that!! Greatnan

They don't want you to know it. It is cheaper to buy from a single source and I suppose they take the view that non-muslims won't kick up a fuss.

But Harrigran surely there aren't any children reading this thread

Well, Greatnan this one is thinking about "kicking up a fuss" by e-mailing all the supermarkets she uses and asking them!!

I once saw a transporter truck crammed with sheep stuck in a traffic holdup on the M5 on a blazing hot day. The animals near the ventilation holes would have been suffering enough, but the others? Not planned, of course, but it was a bank holiday weekend. Criminal lack of care and foresight. I hate the way animals are transported; in contrast, think of how racehorses travel in relative comfort. It's all to do with money.

I think Harrigran was speaking in general terms, not just on this thread!

When I was a child,chicken was a luxury we had very occasionally, perhaps at Easter. Factory farming brought down the price so now it is one of the cheapest meats. This is not a justification, just a fact.

Yep. Chicken was Christmas Dinner in our house.

My mother also talks about how rare a treat chicken was. It was just too expensive. Good, well-raised chicken still is a good deal more expensive than factory-raised chicken, as is other properly grown meat. When we buy cheap meat (or milk, or cheese, or eggs) we are supporting factory farming. My choice is to try and buy ethically even though it does mean getting less for your money. It's better quality anyhow. You can tell that by the taste.

Jacey, I think there is legislation on its way to make supermarkets and other food outlets display whether their meat is halal or not. It's an issue that's been rumbling on for ages....

Because of inheritance rules, French farms tend to be smaller than the huge agribusinesses found in England. I still see calves in the fields with their mothers which I don't recall seeing in England for a long time. English farming is supposed to be very efficient, but would still collapse without enormous subsidies. The supermarkets beat down suppliers until it is almost impossible to make a profit.
I am able to buy free range food here but I know that there are many families in both countries who cannot. I would prefer animals to live an die in decent conditions, but if push comes to shove I would like there to be 'a chicken in every pot'.

You see loads of calves in the fields with their mummy cows!

There are always warnings put out, because that is when you have to be really careful! You must not get between the cow and her calf.

Actually, don't go in the field. Go back the way you came, even if it is miles and miles.

jingl, some cows have to be allowed to grow up or you would never have milk or beef. Perhaps these are the ones you see in the fields.

Well Greatnan ...I composed a letter (with lots of questions) and have e-mailed it to Sainsburys, Morrisons, Tescos, Asda and M&S!! It was really hard finding e-mail addresses for some of them (Asda especially!!) Couldn't find one for the Co-op. Oh ...forgot Waitrose (don't have one near me now)

I shall now wait and see ...but will not hold my breath.

Thanx for that Anagram. Perhaps that's something I could ask my MP about ...seeing that he has not asked anything about the budget

greatnan I saw a lot today as I was emigrating(for the day ) to Wales!

I've had three standard acknowlegdements and an actual reply!!

"At Morrisons we only sell 100% British fresh beef, lamb and poultry. None of it is Halal. The vast majority of our fresh beef and lamb is processed at our own abattoirs in Britain . We adhere to high standards of animal welfare. All of the cattle, lamb and poultry are stunned prior to slaughter.

Our own label frozen beef and poultry is all UK slaughtered and is not Halal.

Our own label frozen lamb is currently sourced from New Zealand and is Halal, the animal is humanely stunned before slaughter and a prayer is read.

The limited range of Halal and Kosher branded frozen food products that we sell is all clearly labelled as such.

With regard to prepared ready meals, the ingredients are from a variety of suppliers and many countries, which are often supplied by a third party. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that these products are not Halal."

They've certainly gone up in my estimation!! Was really surprised about the halal NZ lamb though.

Did you frequent visitors to NZ know that?

Good on you Jacey if, which will be never, I ate meat I would want to know exactly where it came from!

Last year there was a public outcry in Australia regarding footage showing cattle being mistreated in Indonesian abattoirs. Live cattle exports from Australia were banned for a short time. Trade resumed only after strict, new guidelines were introduced to protect animals exported to foreign abattoirs. www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/120228/disturbing-footage-shows-australian-cattle-mistreated-indo Yeah right, as if they are going to treat the animals humanely when they aren't being watched!

I went on a protest march twenty years ago regarding live exports. It is cruel and should have been stopped then!

In the supermarket in Richmond, New Zealand, there is a dedicated halal section, which suggests that the other meat is not halal.
Good for Morrisons - I wonder what Tesco, Sainsburys and Waitrose will have to say.

OK ...M and S have now sent me a reply ...interestingly it expands on the halal lamb and NZ!

"Generally speaking all of our fresh meat is produced in the UK, but for ready meals we tend to use meat produced in the EU. Marks & Spencer is committed to the highest standards of animal welfare and this applies to all the livestock used for the production of our food products. Our livestock specifications cover the welfare of animals throughout their lives - on the farms, during transportation and at the time of slaughter. All abattoirs used by Marks & Spencer, both in the UK and EU are known to us and are audited to ensure they meet our specifications for animal welfare, traceability, hygiene and food safety.

Our requirements for the humane slaughter of animals insist that all animals are effectively stunned as part of the slaughter process. We do not sell the meat from any animal or bird that has not been pre-stunned. Our supplying abattoirs employ Animal or Poultry Welfare Officers who are specially trained and responsible for overseeing the animal welfare requirements within the abattoir. In addition, the abattoirs employ veterinary surgeons who, in addition to meat hygiene inspection, are responsible for ensuring the humane slaughter of animals.

Regarding your concerns about halal slaughter I would like to reassure you that, with the exception of New Zealand lamb, none of our meat or poultry is slaughtered in accordance with any religious practices. The New Zealand lamb industry is heavily reliant on the export of lamb throughout the world. Many of the countries to which it exports have Muslim communities and as such all New Zealand lamb is approved by a halal authority.

We understand that for some there may be a religious or moral objection to New Zealand lamb, so we’re able to offer UK sourced lamb as an alternative. The country of origin of all M&S meat is clearly labelled on the packaging."

I, for one, will be looking closely at the packaging for source...this one reads that all NZ lamb is slaughtered in accordance with the halal authourity ...so would seem doesn't matter whether it is fresh or frozen.

Well, I've know heard from Tesco...

"We sell Halal meat in our stores to meet customer demand and to demonstrate that everyone is welcome at Tesco.

I would like to reassure you that we require all slaughter processes in our supply chain, including Halal, to meet our stringent animal welfare requirements. In every case, the animal is stunned before slaughter so that it is insensible and feels no pain.

Like all other major UK supermarkets, we source from suppliers who serve Muslim as well as non-Muslim customers. Some of these suppliers process all their meat to Halal standards. For example, all New Zealand lamb meets Halal standards. In these cases, all of our processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements and all animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal.

We appreciate that each individual should be able to make an informed decision. Hence we would like to reiterate that all fresh meat we sell is not Halal, except for lamb and chicken and of those ranges we can absolutely assure you that if you buy British organic lamb and chicken as well as the Willow Farm and Finest Free Range lines, these will not be Halal either."

Their reply didn't indicate anything about labelling the source of their meat.

Well done, Jacey. The replies are a bit equivocal - they say all animals are pre-stunned but that does not mean they are not then slaughtered ritually.
I guess it is up to us to look closely at all labelling.