So, now they want to comp9se some crxxpy lyrics to replace..........

phoenix that is so funny about the queen trooping the colour to the Archers theme tune! Made me laugh out loud!

Actually I've always thought we should have changed the national anthem when Victoria died and certainly should have had a new one when QEII came to the throne ...to reflect the so called new world after WWII.

But totally agree England should have it's own song

I wonder what would happen to the Union flag if Scotland did leave? perhaps we'd get a dragon in the middle of the St. George cross

A lot of soccer players aren't british so it's not surprising they just stand there for the national anthem. Don't know about rugby players. Maybe more of them are British.

Don't know about soccer players either except that a good number of them are foreign.

I'm not keen on patriotism really.

Why not Bags? Just interested.

I'm not sure. The feeling started when I was still at home (so, a teenager) and my dad was waxing lyrical about patriotism during WWII. It gave me the creeps because it seemed to involve a certain anti-everyone else stance. Maybe not much, but a bit. Then, later, and now, I don't know if I could ever fight for my country because that would mean acknowledging that we were right, and we so seldom are completely so. I guess what it comes down to is that it seems like a very primitive sort of emotion to me.

That said, when I was working in Thailand and saw how different things were there, I often felt glad that I was European/'western': health care, education, etc.

Bags I'm a bit puzzled. You hate religion and you don't much like patriotism. You don't seem to believe really in close family relationships. How do you manage to run a cub scout group?

And what do you like?

Just out of interest.

Enthusiasm for the outdoors, liking kids, wanting to encourage independence and self-reliance. Will that do for starters?

My relationships with my daughters are close, but we manage without each other perfectly well when we have to, which is most of the time, because we simply don't see the point of not doing that — waste of precious energy — when we don't have a choice. We accept what is and don't pine for something else. It's about being happy with what you have, I suppose.

I guess I think religion and patriotism are a waste of energy as well, though I accept that not everyone feels like that. I don't hate them; I just don't find they are necessary.

B - Your starters sounded like a complete whole meal to me. Filling and satisfying.

butty,

jings, as for what I like — life, the universe and everything that isn't nasty or too noisy.

Bags I'm not awfully keen on religion or patriotism either. I do have a deep and abiding Christian faith, but don't like what institutional religion has made of it. I'm also not keen on the sort of patriotism that says, 'this country is MY country'. I am happy to be British and to have all the advantages that brings with it, but feel that I then have a responsibility towards those who don't have such advantages - many of whom come here hoping to make better lives for themselves and their children.

On a serious level, I'm with you both there, Bags and ga; happy to be in a country where we are so infinitely better off than much of the world's population, where we have clean water, and therefore a lack of water borne diseases, for example. I am happy to expend some of my energy in areas where there is a life threatening lack of the basics of life.

But still enjoying the chat about national songs, and winding up my dear Scot into the bargain.

Oh my gosh!

I'm not of a BNP persuasion Grannyactivist!!!

I haven't been thinking about immigration on this thread!

It's not about that at all.

No, it's not.

i don't like 'vow' but i love the national anthem. confound, indeed!

What's wrong with 'confound'?

I think Gb means we should confound her enemies.

Quite right too.

Whose enemies?

It's 'confound their politics' anyway. And the line is implying we should confound them.

I certainly agree that some politics should be confounded!

Quite right too.

Yes.

"O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics......" etc.

Definitely. That's what we should do.

I'm too tired for this!

I have now got the Age UK banner at the top of the page instead of the Gransnet one.

Just thought I'd mention it.

They're trying to tell you something, jingl!

I agree with condounding skullduggery in all forms! Yes!!

if only...