American Gun Laws

Don't give up hope, Dorset - I didn't expect to see a mixed-race president in my lifetime! The USA may become civilised yet.

Its not going to happen any time soon that's for sure.. its just too much a part of everyday life out there.. kids are taught to handle guns from an early age and its the norm for them. An American friend was amazed when I said I couldn't remember even seeing a real gun much less held one.

Why do they think that being able to walk into a supermarket and buy a gun equates to freedom? I've often wondered how I'd feel if I went to America and thought about the fact that people around me were carrying guns.

Really crimson ?
Have you not wondered how you would feel wandering around Dunblane, or Hungerford or more recently visiting Norway perhaps?
I have.

Horrible things guns, but people would be surprised if they saw just how many guns there are knocking about in this country, apart from licenced shotgun and rifle owners like farmers and gun club members. So many illegal stashes of guns and rifles, pump-action shotguns. Just seeing the numbers that come in during police amnesties is enough to make you wonder where the heck they have all come from. Entering a prison, one is often confronted by one or more guns at the entrance and on the street, when high risk prisoners, abscond-risks, gangsters and the like are being taken to court. We will be seeing thousands of armed army and police personnel during the Olympic games.

Scary enough without having to contend with more everyday people being able to purchase guns, rifles and pistols.

I'm not quite sure I follow your argument there, johnanna. Could you elaborate, perhaps?

The figures speak for themselves don't they. Even if you look at police officer shootings in the states. They are very rare here. Not there.
I once had The Argument with a man (a very nice man) whose sister had been shot by her husband and her body left in the house with the children. But even that had not swayed him from his belief that you area safer in a house if you have a gun.

Yes ana, I can.
Crimson's wondering was subjective, and so was my answer.

johanna, I'm probably being really obtuse, but I still don't see it! I'd like to understand, but I can't see the two posts as being about the same thing.

Neither do I. Crimson was wondering about a country where it is commonplace for the person behind you in the supermarket to be armed. Dunblane and hungerford were unusual incidents in this country, where most people have never seen a gun. Johanna speaks as thoughshe would have beenless surprised if Crimson wondered about the less likely scenario.

Even dreadful incidents like Dunblane and Hungerford should not be a reason for civilians to carry guns legally. Yes there are guns here but one needs a licence and there are strict guidelines on the type of gun a civilian can buy. Actually most criminal injuries are done by a knife or similar. When I visited friends in the US I dropped a pencil under their sofa - as I got down on my hands and knees to retrieve the pencil I found myself face-to-face with the business end of the revolver. I was really shaken much to the amusement of my hosts. It was the first time I'd seen a gun and I certainly wanted it to be the last.

Can"t see them giving up their guns anytime in the near future

Is johanna suggesting that if crimson had been connected to a victim of a shooting she may feel differently about limiting gun ownership or vice versa??

E'vning all as we say oop North.

I am merely trying to say that whatever gun law is in place in any country, it will not make any difference to massacres.
Nothing can protect us from deranged people, which is why I mentioned Hungerford and Dunblane, and Norway.

I also do not believe that most Americans walk around with guns in their back pockets.
If that were so, why did nobody shoot back at the nutter in Denver?

I heard that people aren't allowed to take guns into cinemas there. But then, why did he get through?

But this guy walked into a shop and just bought enough guns and ammunition to probably wipe out a village, and no one thought anything of selling it to him. I'm not saying that everyone in America carries a gun but you wouldn't know if they were or not. I realise that knife attacks are more common in this country, the difference being that you can only kill one person at a time with a knife. You mention Hungerford and Dunblane but how many other massacres have there been in this country? And how many more would there have been without our strict gun laws? How many in America during the same timescale? One of the girls murdered at the cinema had narrowly escaped being killed in another attack in Canada just a few weeks ago. What is the saddest thing about a lot of these massacres is that the lives taken often seem to be young people with their whole lives ahead of them. johanna; I wish you understood how much it pains me when these terrible things happen; I somehow feel that you are accusing me of some sort of insensitivity.

Please no, no no crimson, never would I accuse you of insensitivity.

I think I see what you meant now, johanna, but I still don't think the two situations are comparable. Crimson was talking about a country where gun-toting is legal and common - if we thought about it, most of us would feel more uncomfortable over there, especially in a potentially dangerous situation. In this country and Norway it is not legal or common so it's not at the back of your mind all the time. Of course, terrible massacres such as those which have happened could happen anywhere in the world, but they predictably occur more often where it's legal to carry firearms.

I think he used tear gas which is why no one would have been able to retaliate. Doesn't seem to quite fit the profile of this sort of killer.

crimson
In your penultimate post ( sorry ridiculous word ) you say:" Johanna ,I wish you understood how much it pains me when these terrible thing happen."

Crimson, I do, I really do.

Cast your mind back to the Munich Olympics 1972. There was a massacre. Palestinian Freedom Fighters mowed down Israeli contestants.
Two of the victims were brothers. Their parents were Holocaust Survivors, who had lost all their family,their parents , brothers ,sisters, aunts, uncles etc, etc.and met and married after the war.
So, they had nobody left, except their sons, and then they were taken as well.
For me, that must be the ultimate test of faith.
I think about them sometimes.

It is horrendous when these dramatic & tragic situations happen and they are very shocking and totally unacceptable.
Sadly and equally shocking, are the many thousands of people whose lives have been and are still being destroyed on a daily basis by repressive regimes, in wars etc but they go on so regularly they do not make the news.

That's the thing, isn't it. It's todays news but the families that have lost loved ones and the people that have been badly injured will still be living this for the rest of their lives. How can one person knowingly do that to other human beings. Annoyingly there was, before the film a scene [one of those things that are fashionable in film making now where they show a scene before the film actually starts properly] where someone goes into a cinema and fires bullets into the crowd. This has obviously been pulled now, but it's too late. I was going to see the Batman film [not a fan of that sort of film but it was partly filmed nearby so I wanted to se it out of interest] but not sure if I want to go now.

Today is the first anniversary of the two attacks in Norway that killed 77 people, many of them also young and who should have had their whole lives ahead of them. Such deeds as that and the recent slaughter in America are incomprehensible.

Hard to believe it was a year ago - it still feels fairly recent to me.