Can I just warn any lurkers out there...........

Quite - my poor grandson worked so hard to get his MSc and can't even get a job volunteering. He was told he must get a PhD before he can be considered, which he can't afford. What a rotten time to be young in Europe.

Greatnan Not sure that even maths and science degrees are much in demand these days; there seem to be plenty of BSc, MSc and PhD scientists out of work. I think it's a case of "When everyone is somebody, then no one's anybody".

Neither are employers, it seems, especially degrees in the performing arts, media, or other 'soft options'. I think a good degree in physics , engineering or maths might still be useful in finding employment.

Mishap I threw away all my certificates – including the ones for swimming – when I moved. What possible relevance do O levels taken at 16, for example, have to do with one's career at 30, 40, 50, 60? I like medics including dentists and vets, secondary school teachers and university lecturers to be qualified to do what they do. I think that's probably about it. I'm just not impressed by a degree.

I am more interested in what people have to say than in their qualifications.

In all the different jobs I have had in my working life no-one ever asked to see my qualification certificates - for all they knew I could have made it all up!

I quite like being 'some people' - makes me feel that I represent the silent majority!

Good point movedalot the house needs me and I have two grandsons coming for dinner and an overnight stay. Will force myself away from GN and get going.
Thanks for the push

Yes, I have to admit to having a completely empty, boring life - surely that entitles me to sympathy, rather than criticism. I am off after The Archers to Chamonix - I want to take the lift up to the glacier.

Elegran love 'certificatist'!

Ana, Ceesnan and Nanadog you have all made very relevant points, I don't suppose you will get the clarification you have asked for C as some people throw out these things and then when they are shown to be in error fail to respond.

When most of us were of school age only between 5% and 25% of children, depending upon where they lived, even went to grammar schools and only a very small percentage went to university so therefore it would seem likely that the majority of GNs didn't and have probably never been bothered by the fact.

Does one's education matter when one is older? It appears that whatever level of education some people have time to post on almost every subject and on several forums, perhaps their education, or lack of it, means they don't have enough other interesting things in their lives. (ducks and heads off to do something else!)

I agree with your last statement absent that was succinctly put

There is intellectual snobbery, and there is also anti-intellectual snobbery. There is nothing wrong with having qualifications of any sort, academic or practical. Nothing wrong with not having any either and just getting on with the job.

A man's a man for a' that. Or a woman's a woman for a' that, let's not be sexist as well as certificatist.

Now what is there to post about that is more important. I think I shall have a look on another thread. Bye.

Greatnan Studying when you have children must be a completely different experience from the carefree existence of the 18- and 19-year old undergraduates of our generation. A large part of my reason for emigrating is to give absentdaughter the time to study while I provide chidcare; she still won't have the same kind of university experience as younger students though.

I would guess you can flunk the university of life.

Never said you could escape from that greatnan but that some people learned from it....while some clearly can't

I like that story about the physicists, absent.

I must have missed the post where somebody said that people with degrees had common sense - and the one where somebody claimed to be superior for having a degree. It was jingle who introduced the notion of people needing to have a degree to post - I don't know why she did that.

I can't say I had a great time getting my B.Ed - I had two children under five and a long bus journey each day. I just knew I needed a career that would allow me to give my daughters the kind of childhood I had not had myself. So, no drunken orgies, just a four year slog to fit in all the studying, travelling, housework, cooking, shopping, and spending enough time with the family. My daughter also did it the hard way - she took an OU degree (does that count, jingle?) when she had six children and a full time job.

Surely the 'university of life' is a cliche - how do you escape attending that particular establishment?

That's a bit of a put down in itself when

whenim64 Who is putting who down? I don't care whether Gransnetters have a PhD in Underwater Basket Weaving or a primary school certificate for good attendance and I don't see why anybody else should.

Barrow I think you are so right about focus. Isaac Azimov wrote an interesting book entitled Above the Orchard. His premise was that science had become so specialised that a physicist, for example, on one twig had no idea what a physicist on another twig was doing, let alone what was happening on the rest of the physics tree. The whole science orchard was, therefore, completely impenetrable.

I got a cycling proficiency certificate when I was 11 (even though I fell off my bike in front of the policeman who was carrying out the 'test'). Seeing him not even trying to hide his laughter could have caused me no end of emotional damage, but I just got on with life....

jess and when – quite!

It's more a matter of intellectual snobbery. Some people look down on people who do not have a degree or some acceptable HE qualification. While the phrase 'university of life' has become laughable in some people's eyes there is actually a hard core of truth underlying the concept. Some people live and learn throughout their lives, gaining wisdom and understanding through experience and experiences.

Re. my post about my two DSs. Guess which one has the more common sense. though I have to say that they are both wonderful dads and first rate cooks.

Still putting each down?? I guess I'll come back in a few days and leave you to it!

I have the greatest respect for those who went to University and got a degree, I certainly acknowledge the amount of work that would have been involved.

However, as has been said previously having a degree does not necessarily mean the holder also has common sense. I know someone with several degrees who has worked at NASA but completely lacking in common sense. He once decided to do some "upgrading" of his house and took out ALL the toilets and showers at the same time - he had three small children at the time. My DH got a frantic phone call from his wife asking if he could go and sort something out for them.

I think when someone specialises in a subject, they focus on it so much that they can, sometimes, miss the obvious.

JessM Most people of our generation who went to university enjoyed themselves – not all of them with the archetypal tabloid picture of permanent drunkenness, but because of the freedom, the opportunities for discussion, a chance to study a subject that they found interesting and the lack of real responsibility. I don't think the way the next generation is pushed through the further educational sausage machine includes much enjoyment at all. But be that as it may, I really don't think a first degree was much of a challenge to the average brain even in our generation's day. Nowadays when there are so many graduates, it's about as challenging and valuable as Nfk's swimming certificate.