Good news. The ladies only classes have stopped at my leisure centre.

grace & Jess This is the website:

www.balletblack.co.uk/company.html

I think it may have been started when they thought that black dancers were discriminated against but that has not been the case for a very long time. If a dancer is good enough they will get into a dance company regardless of their colour so why is it OK to discriminate against non-black people?

I guess the same argument applied movealot re the dance company. In the past there has probably not been equality of opportunity in terms of recruitment to some types of ballet company. So why should black dancers not start their own company and be given some funding to help redress that balance?

Totally agree Gracemum. Room for all- and we should try and provide facilities for all - partly because it makes sense so that they can be as healthy as possible too (which benefits all eventually). Frank do you really think that obese ladies and those from groups not allowed to exercise with men are all rich? Out of the week there are plenty of times and classes for those who want to be in mixed groups (like me btw) and for those who don't. Why do you have to throw your toys out of the pram and refuse to 'share'?

What is the Black Dance Company, Movedalot? The thing about positive discrimination is surely that it is a reaction to a degree of discrimination which has existed in the past.
Also I am not sure that Pilates or Step classes would work too well in a burka and even apart from the cultural aspect there are also many women who are self conscious about their body image. So how I see it is :
More mixed classes for those who want them - hurray
No single sex classes for those who want or may needthem - boo.

I think the only ladies only class should be for swimming so that the muslim ladies can go. For all other classes there is nothing to stop women from covering their bodies and joining in with everyone else surely? DH comes to pilates with me and is sometimes the only man but this is not an issue to anyone and no one thinks he is some kind of voyeur!

If women are concerned about men seeing them in skimpy outfits, wear something else!

This sort of discrimination is daft IMO. Just like we have a BLack Dance Company but there would be an outcry if we had a White Dance Company.

I used to attend ladies only swimming sessions quite a few years ago. Oh the relief of the 'sanctuary' of a female only environment! It was only an ahour and a half a couple of nights a week but they were so popular will all ages, all shapes and all persuasions (religious etc). I see them as a huge boon. No matter how 'equal opps' we have been brought up to be in this day and age and in this country there will always be a small minority of men who make women feel uncomfortable when we are at our most vunerable. The 'all girls' together atmosphere allowed new mums, older ladies, post operatives and even shy teenagers a chance to swim in a relaxed and supportive environment.
And if there were ever any doubts in our minds as to why this much needed service should be provided, we only had to glance up at the several unpleasant so and sos who use to creep out of the men's dressing room and line up on the side awaiting for the clock to strike the hour. I can always remember the bloke with the far too small speedos who used to do all sorts of contorted warm up poses!!! Shudder!

But that is another form of discrimination isn't it? A council run leisure centre should take everybody into account - socially and economically. I am pleased that you can go to the classes you wish to attend, but sorry for any ladies who are now deprived of their exercise becasue for whatever reason they feel a mixed class is not for them. It is not enough to say they can "go private" or "pay if they want" - a local authority funded facility is there for all.

Hi granjura

These women who you mention can go to ladies only fitness clubs.
They are more expensive but they can pay if they want.

Frank

Hi Riverwalk

We did complain because we pay a monthly membership and the women had more classes which they could attend for the same fee.
I have been doing keep fit type classes since 1962. It was called keep fit at that time but the names of the classes have changed over the years but they are really still the same.

I have been to my class this morning and got repremanded by two of the ladies because I had not been to thas class since before Christmas as other things have happened on a Sunday.

As it happens my female doctor was there this morning and made the point that I had been doing aerobics type classes for years and she said she wished her husband would come.
We went to the same school although she was 2 years below me.
My female dentist goes to another class and has never objected to me being there.

Incidently when I came back to Birmingham my fathers doctor had just retired and the female doctor said we can come on her list.

With regard to the dentist I walked into the surgery and they told me that all the other dentists had full lists but the female dentist had some room.
As it happened my fathers dentist had to retire early about a year later due to health problems and they moved him to my dentist.
I go to a social club and they have a full membership which is full price and a slightly reduced membership for other people in the same household.
90% of the full members are male and the full female members are generally ones which live alone.
Ladies do go in on their own but I would say at the times I have been there they have mainly been with their husbands.
We do have 2 married full lady members with husbands at the reduced price but they joined the club when they were single.
I must admit men tend to play darts and poole more than the ladies.
They do have a line dancing class which is normally about three quarters women and I attend that.
We are questioning this fee difference which has existed for about 50 years and it may be stopped by the time we renew in April.
None of the committee from 50 years ago are there any more so we do not know the thinking behind this price difference.

Frank

Very well put Riverwalk and Granjura.

Exactly. And women from some religious/ethnic backgrounds do have real health problems due to lack of exercise as they cannot attend classes or swimming sessions where men are present. So why not be tolerant and give them space.

If you particularly want a 'bums and tums' or Zumba - why not attend classes which are mixed. Or ask for men-only classes? Now there are no men-only classes generally because the demand isn't there, not out of discrimination.

Some of my women friends who play golf where NOT ALLOWED to have full membership, and could only play off-peak, and leave peak times for the men 'who were working hard keeping those little women in luxuries'. Some of those women friends were dentists, doctors, business owners, etc. It is only when the Club took a downturn in membership that the rules were relaxed (:

Hunter did you and a few chums complain that you couldn't attend the women-only class, or that there were no men-only classes, or were you making a stand on principle?

Why would you object to the odd session for women-only who may be a bit self-conscious or shy about sharing with men. Was it so important for you to attend the Bums & Tums class?

In general, women are more reluctant than men to expose their bodies.

He was either a cad or his space boundaries were rubbish.

We all know that many men will pay to see women in skimpy or tight clothes writhing about in a sexy manner. Some yoga poses are quite sexual looking, the cat for instance, and that is why I feel uneasy doing them if men are behind me in class.

It's a shame for the nice innocent blokes though.

After reading all this I'm exhausted - must have a lie down...

I don't think he was much of a gent petallus.

He wasn't prodding HUNTERF he 'accidently' kept on rolling when doing his postures.

And I can imagine that in the West Midlands, where I think you live HunterF that would also be a consideration.
Live and let live, I say - one of my less profound observations

Absolutely absent in a leisure centre over which I had indirect control we had a similar arrangement.

gracesmum where I used to live in West London there was a very mixed population. The local swimming pool had a weekly women only session of a couple of hours. This not only enabled Muslim women to swim because no men were present, but also gave them an opportunity to socialise with women from other communities. I usually swam at a different time but certainly didn't resent my council tax covering the cost of a couple of hours a week women only time. Why would anyone object? They might just as well object to the pool being closed or partitioned off at certain times for children's swimming lessons.

Hi petallus

If a man does things like prodding a woman in these classes then he should be excluded.
I must point out it is a woman who was responsible for me attending these classes.
The headmistress of my school sent me to do keep fit as I was useless at things like rugby.

Frank

I hadn't thought of the religious/cultural dimension, but you have a point absent
Maybe there should be room for both? Are the tables turning? Many women are still treated as second class members in many areas e.g. some golf clubs, I understand.
But as I believe Groucho Marx said - I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member

I agree it isn't fair to have women only classes.

However.......

I feel uncomfortable in my yoga class doing some of the more unladylike poses (bum in the air, wiggling about etc) if there are men behind me.

And not all men are as nice as those on Gransnet. There was a gent next to me once who was so close he kept on rolling on to my mat.

For so many years there have been men only clubs etc. pity we can't have the odd women only thing for shy women as a kind of compensation for having been barred in the past.

Heart bleeding again for the oppressed male gender.
In this instance, if there was not demand, then no need for provision. In some areas there is.

Give 'em a break, Frank! I'll say no more

jane

They had a ladies morning in where they did aerobics, bums and tums and Zumba.
I attend aerobics and bums and tums and I am going to give zumba a go as I can attend on what was the ladies only morning
They also had a two hour gym session one night a week but I am not a fan of the gym.

Frank