Cardinal Keith O'Brien

I agree, Mishap. Priestly celibacy is a nonsense, and I'm sure that before too much longer that rule will be totally abandoned. In the meantime, sadly much grief has been caused.

And, yes, it is always a personal tragedy when someone who has done much good turns out to be such a hypocrite.

What does sadden me though, is the resounding silence about the victims of his unwanted advances. I cannot believe that they were not damaged in some way. Not so much by the sexual approaches but by being under the authority of a powerful man, who, as bishop or archbishop had control over their lives. Any priest accepts the authority of his bishop, and when this is corrupted, the damage cannot be minor. A bishop, by the very nature of his office is expected to be a leader and a shepherd, having the care of souls. That responsibility has been wanting.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien spoke of breaking vows that he took "as a priest, bishop and cardinal" so presumably not everything relates to events 30 years ago or when he was a young man. Let us remember that this man, who attempted sexual dalliance with younger men under his authority, described same sex marriage as grotesque and same sex parenting as akin to slavery and said that no child would be safe. He's now done a runner out of the country.

He may be penitent but there has been no sign of it. Saying sorry isn't necessarily an indication of penitence – after all, even politicians do it once they've been found out.

I guess we are all inclined to forgive and feel sad that he has tarnished his reputation - or the good bits of it. Seems sad after a life's work, however much I might regard his "calling" in a less than favourable light.

But for me it highlights the problems of trying to suppress natural instincts - some my find it right for them, but in general it is fraught with hazard.

Often when people are vociferous against gays, I think "Methinks thou dost protest too much!"

Crossed posts there. Slow at typing!

Many homophobic people ,particularly of that generation and upbringing, are probably in denial about their own sexuality

Yes. That is it exactly. Time to be accepting of homosexuality in all walks of life I think.

Sorry, agapanthus, crossed posts!

Evan Davis on Today suggested the Cardinal's 'hypocritical' attacks on gays might have arisen from his own confusion about homosexuality. He suggested that aggressive denunciation is sometimes a form of denial.

There was a discussion on the today programme this morning about him.It was suggested that the reason for his bigotry was his denial of his own homosexual leanings. It's not just hypocracy though, it's the dishonesty in initially denying the allegations. Yes we all make mistakes and he is only human as someone said earlier, but he's had plenty of time to reflect and should have apologised straight away IMO.

merlot that is a very good way of putting it!

I think it is ridiculous to expect men to put sex aside. Asking for trouble.

I agree about the hypocrisy. But we don't really know what feelings were at the heart of that.

I think this "abuse of power" is what I was getting at, or trying to. We seem to have reverted to some medieval "droit de seigneur" in too many of our public bodies, in politics and in the world of work.
Do women make the same sort of advances on men? I must have had a sheltered upbringing, but it's not been my experience. What is it about power and its abuse?

It's the hypocrisy that I find difficult to forgive.

I agree with jing and*Barrow*, but do have difficulty with him being so publicly against gays but, as micelf says, we don't know the whole story, and we may not. I do think it is time for the Catholic Church to be more responsible and do some real investigating, they have turned a blind eye for too long.

No one knows the full details of what happened, but it would seem that that big offence (sin) was not his homosexual advances, but the abuse of power. He was a bishop and senior member of the seminary and the complainants were much younger and powerless.

He has made so many bigoted homophobic pronouncements in the past that he was given the title of 'bigot of the year'. To many, many Catholics he is an embarrassment. Not because he is apparently gay, but because of the hypocrisy and the damage he has done to sincere gay Catholics.

It's for Jesus Christ to forgive him. Or perhaps his victims, not anyone else. But in any event, justice always needs to precede mercy.

If you're going to dress men up in long robes and refuse to let them have normal sex, you're asking for trouble!!

Thanks Galen - precisely the point I was trying to make (and making a right pigs ear of it!)

That was to jing and Barrow

Galen

I couldn't agree more. If Christ could forgive sins like the woman taken in adultery, surely we should be able to forgive this man who after all is only human.
Let him that is without sin etc:

My response as a Catholic, (albeit in the porch) is that his behaviour has been utterly disgraceful. He has brought his office into disrepute and he has made some of the most bigoted statements in the past that I've ever heard from the hierarchy. The RCC in Scotland seems to be deeply disordered and in need of urgent reform. I'm glad he's gone and I hope he spends his remaining years in prayer and repentance.

These things happened something like 30 years ago, haven't we all done things when we were younger which we now regret - isn't that part of being human?

He has apologised and resigned

As I said I believe he has been a hypocrite and broken the vows he took when he became a priest, but as what he did was foolish rather than illegal I think we should cut him some slack.

And how do you know he isn't penitent?!

Barrow Why write in the passive? He and he alone trashed his entire life's work and his reputation by disobeying the vows he took when he became a priest, abusing his position of authority and then lying about his actions when they were revealed.

Before appeals for mercy, perhaps there should be some signs of penitence.

Thank God Barrow! Someone who agrees with me!