Yet another rant on bad grammer,spelling and punctuation

The Academie is not much use though and is a bit of a joke, because they are so far behind the times. Standards of written French are often poor around here and I end up teaching French grammar to the children I coach in English. Our friends complain about poor standards of television presenters, grammatical mistakes, wrong elision etc
Most new words are in English tbh.

Surely grammar and vocabulary are two sides of the same coin? I don't mean the average child should know how to identify an adverbial clause of time for example, but s/he should be able to speak their own language fluently.
The French have their Académie française, we have nothing to compare.

Grammer Grammar

Thank you for that clarification, Orca.

I think that we do make judgements about people's intelligence and class based on their use of language (see Wayne and Waynetta remark above). I am not sure we should.

My OH rants about poor use of language ad nauseam, pointing out every little error he sees or hears. That can be just as irritating as the errors themselves!

An inability to articulate either verbally or on paper must be very frustrating - another good reason for ignoring the finer points and going for the meaning maybe?

So many children are made to feel stupid at school because they find the details of grammar beyond them; but they can express themselves in their own way and we should value that.

Greatnan I worked with mainly illiterate offenders, and generally found their ability to articulate verbally frustrated them, but they were astoundingly good at portraying their deepest feelings through art and drama.

Bernstein
By access I mean they may not have the range of vocabulary to express the complicated thoughts that they may wish to express.

Orca, I am intrigued by your comment that less articulate people cannot access deeper thoughts. Do you have any evidence of this, other than anecdotal? I taught the bottom streams in some inner-city comprehensive schools and I was constantly delighted by the insights shown by many of my pupils.
When I listen to the waffling of some public-school-educated chumps I think that a large vocabulary is no indication of higher-level thinking.

Totally agree joan and nightowl it just jars.
Butty wasn't offended, just re-read my post and thought !@#$¥

I don't think it has anything to do with class Mishap but everything to do with education and caring about the erosion of our language. I hear the same concerns from an Italian friend about her own language. I realise that language evolves but the meaning has to be retained.

I really wish I didn't care, but I can't help it.

When I hear things like : "between you and I", which is the sort of error I hear all the time, it makes me grind my teeth.

The greengrocers' apostrophe annoys me, and I've been known to rub it out if it is in chalk.

When people talk about something being 'decimated', when far more than 10% has been destroyed, I want to correct them.

It is our language after all, and I feel a sense of ownership, so when people hurt it, I get very cross.

I'm happy with new words though, and new usage of old words, like mouse. I'm happy for us to absorb foreign words too; they brighten up our language.

I don't think it is anything to do with the class system, but I suppose it is true that those of us who went to an old fashioned grammar school generally get it right.

As long as the meaning is clear - and context gives away a lot - why do we mind so much? Is it our good old British class system rearing its ugly head I wonder?

I am npot sayoing that I too do not mind, but I ask myself why. If I can understand what is being said, then why does it matter?

I know. Just teasing Orca - it appealed to my sense of humour.

Big differences between typos and not knowing!

Ooops, Orca

Mishap it's just another example of dumbing down. I have no problems with modern terminology such as 'lawyered-up' etc. Language evolves, moves forward. Fair enough. It's those who can't punctuate (as previously pointed out it can alter while meanings of sentences), cannot conjugate a verb ("we was brought up proper") or use acceptable grammar, lack vocabulary to express themselves clearly (do no wonder they cannot access deeper thoughts) and in general mangle the language Wayne and Waynetta style!!

I am another ex-pedant who has stopped caring!

I don't think it really matters, although I too find it irritating. If language never evolved we'd still be grunting like cavemen.

Orca - why does it matter?

I too am irritated by these sort of errors, but have started to ask myself why. There are some errors that have become so common that they are almost accepted parlance - maybe this is just how language and punctuation develop.

The temptation to think that what we were taught will be right for all time is one that I am trying not to succumb to.

Whoops, Greatnan, missed that one. I should of chequed with my secertary.

Yes, Mishap it does matter.

Don't you mean 'very pacifically', Lilygran?

Perhaps because they are pronounced the same. Led by the hand and lead the metal?

Why do so many people think that the past tense of 'lead' is 'lead'? It is, of course, 'led', but it looks as if this may die of disuse/misuse.

Why do so many people think that the past tense of 'lead' is 'lead'? It is, of course, 'led', but it looks as if this may die of disuse/misuse.