Education

I know I'm harking back to a slightly old thread, and one where some of us (me) got a bit aerated, but I have just come across this.
If you look at the age groupings along the top, is does seem history is taught chronologically. Seems sensible to me.

And it seems to be taught quite imaginatively.

Galen my daughter is a biochemist and tells me that science is not an exact science educated guess work seems to be the polite description of some of her research.

Enterprise, I have read that youth vehicle crime is vastly reduced if they are sent on a car maintenance course instead of being given a custodial sentence.
I organised a child development course for my 'ROSLA' girls, liaising with all the nurseries and infant schools in the district. It was hugely popular and all the schools reported that the girls were polite, mature and helpful.
This did not mean that I was not paying attention to their literacy and numeracy skills as well - it does not have to be an either/or situation.
As most of them would be mothers at a fairly young age, I hoped it would help them to understand their own children better.

Yip! I'm in Portishead on the Bristol Channel coast.

Oh is that where you are Galen? We got the boat from the SSGB to the centre. Goodness it looks better. Glad you said that about medicine, I don't think my doctor friends would call it an exact science either. Of course there is a lot of science involved in how people learn and I sometimes wish that I had had more time in my career to develop my understanding of that. I still get enormous pleasure from helping children to learn, though. Our starting point in Bristol with the granddaughters was history, but we covered geography, science, design technology, economics to name but a few.

The lad that does my decorating went off the rails at school because he had dyslexia. Not sure how he got into decorating, but he's very good at it and is also a joy to be with [important if someone is going to share your house space with for several days]. Not only that but he is also very eloquent and has an incredible desire for knowledge and travel. There must be so many young people out there that didn't find their niche jobwise.

Galen

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'be educated up to the gills'. There is no point in asking young people what they want to be when they grow up any more. The jobs that most of them will be doing haven't even been invented yet. The best we can do is give them the best numeracy and literacy possible, plus the ability to cope with constant change and an understanding of what their transferable skills are.
I love the quote from Albert Einstein:
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
When my shower is leaking through my kitchen ceiling, I want a good plumber. I don't care if he can speak Latin or recite Shakespeare, but hope he will be good at his job, polite and able to write me out an invoice I can understand. Many of the children I taught who were on the brink of going completely off the rails would have dropped out of education at a very early age with this sort of curriculum. Instead, we got them off to an agricultural college, a large manufacturing company and outdoor problem-solving work. They flourished with this curriculum, tailored to their own individual strengths. Interestingly, all but one of those children moved on to college or training, saving the taxpayer huge amounts in benefits and keeping them in prison. They were great kids and only needed someone to care about them, a bit of money to make it happen and a government that would allow teachers to make a judgement on what was best for them.
Sadly, very few, if any, get this opportunity now as 'vocational education' has been poo-pooed by people in offices far removed from real education and the real world, judging what is 'right' by their own experience of public school or boarding school.

Yes, me, online through iportal as Juragran's TV does not get Radio 4. I am multi-tasking!

Mamie if you were at Bristol, why didn't you pop in and see me?

jingle hate to disillusion you, but medicine is not an exact science. It's partly witchcraft!
Anybody listening to 'the news quiz?'

The purpose of education is to realise the full potential of eveyone as an individual, whatever their intelligence or [in my case] lack of any practical skills whatsoever. I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up although, strangely enough I did a computer thing when I was quite young that threw up what I am doing now. I mean, it could have come up with 'nuclear physisist' [which I can't even spell] but it didn't.

But, Sel, you have told us a couple of times how you employ people, pay tax, contribute to the economy - why are you so modest when it comes to expanding on how you achieve all this?

Be. Not me. Sodding kindle fire

I think it would me good if all children could be educated up to the gills, and then trained for a job when they are mature enough to know what they want to do.

#pipedream

#don'tsmokeapipe

Fair enough Sel, but it makes it hard to know where you are coming from sometimes. What is your view of your Grandchildren's education?

Greatnan, no I haven't told you the nature or size of my businesses, I don't feel the need to constantly blow my own trumpet either in my life or via an internet forum.

He is not the only minister to ignore advice of course. I believe the very eminent advisor on drug abuse, Professor David Nutt, advised that many drugs should be legalised. In the event, a fudge was adopted - small amounts of cannabis, for personal use, would result in a caution. The advisor was sacked. Others on the committee resigned in disgust. It seems that advisory bodies are just smoke screens and the government will go on its merry way pursuing right wing , outdated policies.

Unfortunately, Gove is entitled to ignore his advisers' advice if he wants to, although if he is going to pursue his own theories in opposition to the advice, what is the point in having advisers or commissioning research? But he shouldn't invent 'facts' to support his stupid plans. Where does he get the idea that more 'successful' countries have longer school days and shorter holidays than the UK? Where are they?

I think enterprisegran's post covered the subject of young people who are less academic being given help towards finding suitable work?

Sel, I am sorry you have such a low opinion of school leavers. You have never told us the nature or size of your successful business and what training you offer to your new employees. Do you expect their schools to turn them out ready for you?

enterprisegran apologies as I don't have much time: isn't one of the greatest burdens now on teachers their massive admin load leaving them less time to actually teach? Given the high unemployment rates of young, shouldn't preparing them for employment in any possible way be paramount in education? Isn't the idea that this makes them 'fodder' rather laughable - what is the alternative? They turn their questioning minds to sorting out the benefits they'll be entitled to?

Absolutely agree Enterprise Gran. Just a bit worried about who will be shedding them.

I seem to have sparked quite some conversation here!
I myself was in charge of Careers Education and Enterprise Education so have a pretty good knowledge of school / business links. Employers certainly did say that students leaving school didn't have the skills they needed. However - and this is a really important point - they weren't talking about being able to recite the dates of the Kings and Queens of England! The skills they needed in young people were good literacy and numeracy, certainly, but more personal skills (we call them 'enterprise skills') like coping with change, risk-taking, innovation, decision-making, communication etc. We were heading in the right direction five years ago when many schools had policies to provide activities to hone these skills and set up vocational courses for those who were not so academically gifted. Funding for this was immediately withdrawn when the new government came in (though why enterprise was not high on their agenda I do not know) and schools were told to go back to Latin and learning by rote. That coupled with testing everything in sight and judging schools on a scale where 'good' became 'satisfactory' and 'satisfactory' became 'failing' left our teachers with a massive administrative load and less time giving one-to-one attention to our children.
I like the fact that one of you on here made reference to the fact that Mr Gove DID have educational advisors but then chose to ignore them. It doesn't take a very big search on Google to find evidence of letters from his previous advisors expressing their horror at the work that was done and then ignored. Even people in his own department have threatened action because of the way the department is being run. This man is determined to drive forward his personal beliefs about education regardless of teachers, unions and academia.
As I often say to my boisterous grandsons as they roll around the carpet play fighting, 'this will all end in tears!'

This was just us during the holidays Greatnan, but the girls have done some wonderful school visits locally and in London. It is a prosperous town where they live though, so I think most of the parents in the catchment can afford to contribute.
It was expensive, but precious, priceless time with the GDs at such a wonderful age for learning. I consider it a great privilege to be able to do that sort of thing with them, especially as we only see them a few times a year.