Really stupid?

I have mixed feelings about this issue. I think it is a good idea for nurses in training to have plenty of hands on experience early on to ensure they have chosen the right career, and are suitable for it. I have 3 young friends, two of whom are nurses and the other one a doctor, who all worked part time in the 6th form at a local residential home, taking care of elderly people and performing basic tasks of cleaning and feeding. All 3 have attested to the value of this experience. However, I wouldn't like to see nurses used as a scapegoat for all the ills endemic in the NHS system. There's no point in stressing the value of care and compassion unless nurses are given the time and resources to put these values into practice.

Thirty eight years ago I spent 5 weeks with my then 2-year-old in Birmingham Children's Hospital. In that situation, the nurses did not only have to deal with ill and distressed children but often with worried, even distraught, parents. I don't know if their course in paediatric nursing covered working with parents but these young women, few of them out of their 20s, and many of them still in training, were among the most kindly and empathic people I have ever met. The ward sister was an example to all of them. She took me into her room and handed me a box of tissues when I was at a low ebb. Have things changed? Or do the ones with a real vocation still become children's nurses?
Thanks to all of them and a wonderful surgeon, the 2-year-old is now a hale and hearty 40-year-old and himself a father of two.

celebgran Greatnan nurses here in the UK often spot doctors' prescribing mistakes, having learned dosages and medication types on the job, although they only get a fortnight on pharmacology during training (good for NZ that they get more input on their courses). Patients then have to wait till either the doctor comes back, or the pharmacist arrives on the ward.

My son is coming to the end of his 3 year psychiatric nursing training at uni. He has done general nursing and specialised in mental health, doing lots of bank work at weekends in both general and psych units, and his many placements have been in A and E, dementia and community nursing. He has wiped bottoms, bed-bathed, cleared up every type of bodily fluid, vomit and faeces, mopped floors when cleaners had finished for the day, and sat holding the hand of dying and distressed patients.

His last study stage is managing cases, and the emphasis is on delegation, managing records, psychiatric intervention methods, accessing resources and moving patients through the system. He feels quite upset about the way students are encouraged to move away from the personal care and support as they reach qualification, and says he would always be prepared to get stuck in to cleaning and menial tasks, but is afraid that the job won't let him - bosses say the auxiliary nurses and psych support workers do this, but there are never enough on the wards, and many are agency workers with no investment in the job. Plenty of managers, though!

Very well said orca regarding pharmacology the pharmacist trains for 4 years really feel nursing should be that they give out drugs not dispense them they are not needed to check fr interactions that will have leeway been one greatnan.

Always bugs me that doctors prescribe wrong meds and pharmacists ave to correct it! Am I biased as oh is pharmacist? Probably!

Yes, I think you can Greatnan, in many cases. I don't mean you can change someone's basic instincts but you can, by example and by the ethos in a particular job/environment develop the attitudes pertinent to the job, especially at the training stage.
There will always be those who bring to the profession the best of both worlds but we can't allow the academic nature of current nurse training to result in the attitude that they are too highly trained to perform basic tasks.

I don't know about recent nursing training in the UK, but my gd in NZ tells me that there is a very large academic content to the three year degree course she is just about to complete. Nurses have to know a great deal about pharmacology as they have to check dosages, etc (incredible as it may seem, doctors do make mistakes).
Can you teach somebody to be loving, kind and caring?

I must admit that when I was in hospital for 12 days the nurses I encountered were very caring and did take me to the loo when I needed support. The older ones seemed to be more old school and more caring tho.

Anyone too posh to wash should not be in nursing why should they not spend time on the ward doing basic care ?

I agree with the idea completely. I do however think a year is too long before starting University. I think 3/6 months would be about right.

Why do I agree. Like Kitty and I suspect many other GN's I have first hand experience of poor quality nursing care, as well as good. If you are seriously interested read the relevant report on sub standard nursing care, it will shock you.

I believe that having an 'apprenticeship' so to speak will give a wonderful opportunity to a potential nurse to find out 'IF' infact it is the vocation for him/her. It is a part of the job and why go through 2 years at university only to take a nursing position and find out you can't stand the job. I'm sorry to say it but I do belive there is such a thing as 'too posh to wash'.

I think the drop out rate for new nurses would fall and those who complete their training and subsequently obtain a nursing position will know they are upto the challenges that giving personal care involves. Like a lot of jobs the practice is not the same as the theory and it can only be good to have the insight before dedicating so much of your time, energy and money and know you are the right person for the job.

The likes of North Staffordshire, George Elliot Hospital etc. are proof that the nursing profession needs to go back to basics. Whilst the unions may disagree I think there may be an awful lot of older nurses who are shouting out 'About Time'.

If it helps them to realise caring is main part of nursing good dea! Surely any decent nurse should know that. Going by nurses at our surgery they vary a Lot!

I fel bad idea making degree requisite for nursing. practical caring IMO does not need a degree it should be natural and probably can't be taught should be obvious! Sadly not from what we hear about old people left to go thirsty and not helped to eat wash or go to loo dreadful really.
I have also seen nurses on their mobiles!
Surely this is not allowed?

kitty the nurses wouldn't? [incredulous emoticon]

I don't! I spent ages when Mum was in hospital trying to find someone to take her to the loo - the nurses wouldn't but there was no-one else to ask!