Is the easy availability of pornography damaging society?

Nonu here's the thread I referred to on the age of consent discussion.

Frank I think your stance was commendable, my husband is similar to you, he never forgets he has a daughter and now four granddaughters, he always tried to instill into our boys that the way women were portrayed in so called "lads mags" and worse and denigrates their sex. At the same time he would remind me that boys think about sex all the time and they will look at images that I as a woman would find distasteful.

Quite when - however the likes of Madonna could have made a stand if she chose to, instead of making every buck she possibly could.
Feetlebaum just because prostitution is not a disaster for everyone does not make it an OK thing. My point is that porn, prostitution, trafficking, topless photos and the cosmetic surgery industry are all interlinked. Not saying it is a conspiracy or that only men profit from it. But ultimately the winners are predominantly either rich or criminal and male.

Wasn't Jane Russell considered very racy? Since the advent of films and television women have been portrayed as sexual objects. If you look at some of the old pictures of movies stars in the 30s,40s,50s etc. they looked hot, as they were meant to to sell a product. I don't think this is the problem.

The original post asks about pornography and the internet - a very different matter. I hope that an 'opt in' policy will be adopted otherwise children will access highly unsuitable and corrupting material via the internet. How many children now have smartphones and tablets? I used to read by torchlight under the bedcovers, many children now have access behind their bedroom door to a very dark world.

Jess I agree with you about Billie Piper - and also the pseudo-romantic, light hearted depiction of prostitution in Pretty Woman made me angry.

Female pop stars are often pressurised to wear scanty outfits and to writhe around in explicit dance routines. Whilst we might think that they should refuse to do so, I'm sure many of them go along with it because they are used to seeing women portrayed in that way and think it's the norm. Women's bodies and looks are continually being used as a marketing tool, so it's no wonder that they start to think the only route to success and happiness is via their bodies and faces.

I caught the end of a discussion on Radio 4 the other day when they were talking about feminism. Apparently many young female singers are instructed not to call themselves feminists when they are interviewed because feminism is considered to be a turn-off.

I have read that there are a lot of young men who now can't have a 'normal' sexual relationship because of the amount of porn that they have watched.

You're right, BAnanas. These rich, powerful celebs are only out for themselves in that they exploit their own sexuality for financial gain (although if there was no demand, they'd have a struggle). I don't suppose they give any thought to the women and girls who are exploited by others with their help. In the unlikely event of them having their awareness raised, and taking a stand about sexual violence and exploitation in the field of glamour modelling and pop music, they would be ridiculed now.

I agree with everything that has been said here about the sexualisation of children and how awful it is that women are used in the sex industry or trafficked against their will.

It should however be appreciated that there are many women who do their own sex no favours in the way that they continually project themselves and perhaps it should be acknowledged that some women do actually enjoy being exhibitionists. Much has been written about the likes of Katie Price and how she has made a fortune out of her much enhanced and not very natural attributes, some would even say that she's a good example to women, I'm not one of them, in that she appears to be completely in control and it's quite obvious that she isn't being pushed and shoved around. She's gone a long with with very little talent.

Why does someone with considerable talent such as Rhianna have to continually dress and act like a porn star? Clearly she micro manages her own image The pictures of half dressed women that are published in The Sun or even for that matter the Mail on line are done with the full co-operation of whoever they are of, they release exactly what they want to release. It keeps their "brand" forever in the public eye and although these pictures could be considered quite lewd, to people who were brought up with different standards I think that someone like Rhianna or Lady Gaga would consider them empowering as did Madonna a few years ago. Sadly it isn't empowering for the young teenage girls who would seek to emulate them and are at the same time under continual pressure, it seems, from the boys they mix with who have been influenced by the tidal wave of porn on offer. It would be helpful if some high profile personalities could think a bit more about that and the example they are setting.

I have a friend who has a daughter who attended a Russell Group university and whilst she was there posed for a calendar which ended up in The Sun titled something like "University Babes". She didn't need the money, she is clearly intelligent she now has two degrees but has gone on to pose for tawdry publications like "Nuts" Why did she do it? Because she wanted to!

.......BUT, feetlebaum every prostitute that reinforces the message that it is ok for men to use them as sexual objects for money helps to maintain the industry of pimping, drug trafficking, abusive images of women and children and the treatment of women as second-class citizens.

That anonymous prostitute who you refer to could equally be your wife, sister or daughter. Or wouldn't you approve?

I knew a young woman who was a prostitute. She had found a 'sugar-daddy', and he was paying for her young son to attend a good school - all well, you might think. Then one day I overheard her on the telephone, obviously doing business... "Whatever are you doing?" I asked her. "Oh" she said "I just missed being under a client!"

So not all call-girls, escorts or whatever you want to call them, are unhappy, or being ill-treated...

When I was at work I was invited to go to a strip joint on a few occasions.
As a father of 2 girls I would not go as it is not showing respect for women.
To be honest I prefer to see a woman in smart either formal clothes or smart casual clothes.

Frank

Prostitution is the a nasty industry. There are many who would like to "normalise" the trade. Was well hacked off with Billie Piper for instance with that prog - Belle de Jour was it? And then there is the Sun and Star that publish endless pictures of identikit enhanced breasts.
Apparently young women in their first weeks in university are under some pressure to attend porn-inspired social events. The 21st C version of the Tarts and Vicars party...

Just how nasty this nasty business is (and business is what it is) was brought home to my Rotary group last night by a woman who works with young people who have been 'trafficked'. The people who run such 'business' are pitiless beasts who objectify human beings. It is appalling. If campaigning against the sexual objectification of people will make any difference, then we need to do it.

Another thing she highlighted when we mentioned our feeling of helplessness is that contacting MPs about making changes to laws which affect the asylum-seeking process of trafficked people is worth doing. The people she works with are so psychologically damaged that they can't cope with what we would think of as ordinary questions and this works against them because their 'stories' then don't hang together tight enough for lawyers. Language is usually a problem too.

when Great post.

Thanks for the clarification, ga.
Got a bit ratty - but then this sort of subject usually makes me feel that.
When I read you'd worked 'extensively', I didn't immediately think of a specialised unit.

Butty I was working in a very specialised unit with a particular group of women. My comments refer only to that group of people.

Quite apart from anything else accessing porn is risky. My husband used to fix computers for people at work and he found that if they were infected with viruses nine times out of ten they would have come from a porn site. He said a lot of the men hardly looked at anything else and were sitting ducks for attackers.

I certainly think boys are getting a very unrealistic view of sex. Women aren't always up for it, don't necessarily enjoy oral or anal sex or sado masochism, and don't find all men (however hideous) irresistable.

ga My experiences, and those of the young people I worked with, would disagree with your comment of almost all of those who have experienced sexual abuse had 'normalised' their experiences through pornography.

There is a big difference between acting 'as if' and 'normalising' trauma. My work with young people would suggest quite the reverse of your almost all
comment.

Frankly, there is, and can never be, a normalising of such a history.

I believe the attitude of many boys towards girls has worsened since the advent of freely available pornography. There are so many horrible stories of girls whose lives are destroyed (sometimes literally, by suicide) because some boy has got them to perform 'a sexual act', presumably fellatio, filmed it and distributed it. I might have been a bit naive, but I had honestly never heard of this act until I had been married for several years.
The tabloid newspapers, not just The Sun, pretend to be shocked by pornography, but are delighted to post images of what the Mail calls 'wardrobe malfunctions' on their on- line version. An exposed nipple gets them salivating. Sometimes girls as young as 14 are described as 'flaunting their curves' when they are simply wearing a swimsuit.

I read last week that model agencies are now stationing recruiters outside eating disorder clinics because they want girls as thin as possible. Have these people no conscience?

There is no doubt that we do need a system where people opt in rather than opt out of porn on the net. All child porn has a victim. Children involved have been damaged and have very little chance of living a normal life.

I don't want my grandchildren to be able to see these images at other people's houses.{or their own}

I have heard that in Germany you have to visit the Post office and get some kind of access code or similar to access pornography. Why can we not have something similar here. Or at least the default setting on computers being to protect against pornography unless you take conscious steps to access it.

We are absolutely obsessed about paedophiles and child abuse, yet many children regularly see pornography on their parents computers. Isn't that a form of child sex abuse? Perhaps we should prosecute anybody, including parents whose actions make it possible for children under 15 to see pornographic images.

I have worked extensively with adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse (including women who had become sex workers and were themselves used in the production of porn films) and to a lesser extent with children who have been abused. Almost all of the survivors I worked with had had their early sexual experiences 'normalised' through the use of pornography. Porn is addictive and, as with drugs, there is usually an escalation. I hate it.

when I share your feelings about censorship. I don't support it in general but think that there are serious issues about images of violence and sex – and a lot of porn, from what I understand, features both of these.

HUNTERF As far as parental settings are concerned, I think these can be very useful but they cannot prevent access to all pornography, not least because there is such a lot of it and sites change.

When I'm 64, Excellent post agree with all you say.

Missed out an S. Heridan did not write any plays.