Signing homework jotters

I have a confession to make. Last weekend, DGS at aged 9 asked me for help with his homework, to do with telling the time. I don't know what came over me but I asked 'Do you want some help or do you want the answers?' to which he replied that he wanted the answers and I complied. As a retired teacher, should I be ashamed of myself?

Bags

I need to work on my enigmaticness

I've chuckled at this thread. I was so remiss at signing DD's book that she taught herself to copy my signature perfectly, and I was complemented on parents' evening on how faithfully the contact book was completed. I just smiled enigmatically.

I am aware that some of what I've said could sound patronising. That's because I'm picking up a patronising attitude and throwing it back at the person doing the patronising.

Hmm. I'm glad I've got to the bottom of why I feel irritated on this subject: it's because I feel patronised. Well, well.

So far as I can tell, most of Minibags's teachers would agree with you, gm, and don't set homework for its own sake. However, her "guidance teacher" seems to be arguing that she should be doing some homework even if none has been set. I think that is a very surprising view to hold about twelve and thirteen year olds!

Because I asked why I was expected to sign a blank homework jotter, he has said that DD doesn't use hers effectively. I'm sure he's right, but this could be (just could be!) because she doesn't need to use it at this stage, that she just remembers what she has to do and either does it satisfactorily, or else convinces her teachers that she has even when she hasn't. This strikes me as normal twelve year old behaviour. I know they are trying to teach the kids useful strategies for managing study time, but I think they are unrealistic to expect most twelve year olds to take it all that seriously. It would be quite wrong for a twelve year old's school work to be so dominant that they got stressed about it and needed some kind of jargonistic management techniques to cope. I don't blame him for trying, but I think he needs to relax a bit where first years are concerned.

Besides, so far we have received precisely no complaints about her school work. She seems to be managing fine – more than fine in some subjects.

The guidance teacher's suggestion that she spend some time reading made me laugh but then he can't know, I suppose, that she borrowed hundreds of books from the library while she was in primary school (the librarian got to know her so well, she bent the rules so DD could borrow more than was usually allowed at once), that she used to save all her pocket money for months and then spend it all on books. He is just re-gurgitating stuff that he 'knows' is "good".

Sigh.

If DD was struggling to cope at school, he might (^might^) have a point. I just wish he would cut down on the management-speak gobbledegook and remember he's dealing with people, not machines.

I'm sure he's a 'nice' man and that he "means well". I've only spoken to him on the phone so far and by letter. I must arrange to meet him at the next parents' evening.

I'll go along with you about homework being set for its own sake. I prefer homework to be preparation for new work, if appropriate or consolidation of skills or concepts taught in class. The idea of independent learning or application of new knowledge is also important but what I used to hate was 1) stuff you could crib off the internet, 2 )stuff Mum and/or Dad would complete or 3) something so meaningless that it didn't add anything to the pupil's knowledge or understanding. I liked homework to supplement class work but never set it just for the sake of it.

I don't think complaining about three and a half hours homework for a twelve year old could be called over-protective! You're right that he should have checked on what was required though.

But kids can misunderstand. One of the first French homeworks my sister had when she started at secondary school was to find out something about three famous French people. She didn't know of any so asked our parents. They named obvious ones such as Napoleon, Louis XIV, De Gaulle. My sister's dubious response was: "Are you sure they're famous?" Well, how was she to know at the age of eleven?

And, to be honest, what was the point of that homework at the beginning of learning the French language? I reckon it was set because French homework was timetabled and for no other reason.

I don't agree with homework being set or being done for its own sake. Minibags often asks questions about things she hasn't fully understood, or she will tell us something, which we can then enlarge on or, in some cases, correct.

I still don't care what set homework she has nor whether she does it. She needs to sort that all out with her teachers herself and we need to accept that if she's not the studious type then she's not the studious type and to encourage her to do what she enjoys – currently writing and drawing, nothing to do with school.

I suppose I'm just tired of schools thinking they are the be all and end all of education.

Rant over.

Thanks, gracesmum! I was just getting round to say that but you have done it for me. Agree with all you say - it works for all involved, parents, teachers, students.

Parents always used to complain, many years ago, that they knew nothing about what their children were doing at school. Now, even with the unreliability of student mail, the information is shared.

I absolutely see your point of view Bags but alas many parents are not either as well-informed or supportive as you. Some can be over-protective too - I remember one complaint by the father of a girl in my Year 8 form, that she had spent 3 1/2 hours on her English homework and he thought this was excessive at age 12 . I asked if he had been told what she had to do and looked at the girl's homework diary. He had NOT, but taken her word for what was required. The task was to come up with a design, title and cover/title page for a "book". No way was this designed to take 3 1/2 hours, probably the 45 minutes allocated to each subject at this age. The girl, a perfectionist. had chosen to do otherwise, but it was helpful to be able to support the teacher concerned. Again as a form tutor, you could see (and we also signed homework diaries once a week in tutor time) that there was a spread of homework tasks - not 5 subjects on Monday and only 2 on Tuesday (because they had PE, Music and Games) . We also used the homework diary as an informal means of communication with parents - a note about equipment/ uniform / homework/punctuality etc) Still in favour - sorry!!

Here in Belguim my DD didn't seem to get as much homework as she had in Portugal and Scotland, the school day is long here. What she did have was a Journal which had to be signed by a parent every week and contained her timetable, details of any events or outings and also weekly comments by individual teachers. As the school had copies of the parents I.D. cards our signatures could not be forged !!!!

"jotters" is used a lot in Scotland, grandmanorm. Seems to be the standard word for exercise book.

I agree about being involved in one's children's education. I am and so is MrBags, probably more than most parents if the case were inspected! That's different from being directly involved in knowing what or if she has homework and whether she's doing it. That, we feel, is up to her – including taking any reprisals that the school may apply if she doesn't do it. Our feeling is that if she falls behind out of laziness (so far she hasn't), we'll soon hear about it. At that point we say: "So what are you going to do about it, Minibags?" She has everything she needs to do school work at home if she needs to: peace and quiet if she needs that, support researching things if she needs that, tapping into our knowledge and experience if she needs that. But it's up to her to take the ultimate responsibility.

Learning to take responsibility for her own behaviour is part of her education, we feel. A rather crucial one too, better learned now than later.

I'm taking the same line my teacher parents took with us. All five of us did well at school and went to uni. They encouraged us to do our best and would help if asked but didn't interfere unasked.

Same approach worked with DDs 1 and 2. It's not as if I've no experience as a parent (or as a teacher, come to that).

As a teacher I felt parents should be involved in their children's education and aware of what homework they were doing. As a parent it was a useful check in the face of the "Oh we don't have any tonight/this wekk/ever" scenario. I also found it useful when facing parents at parents' evenings where I would comment on the completion or otherwise of homework or face accusations that "They never got any". So, sorry, but I don't agree it's the responsibility of only the school or only the parents.
It's a partnership, isn't it?

Back in the forties and fifties we had 'Record Books' at my school.

A week to a page, three columns - 1. Day of the Week, and space for parent's initials 2. Homework subjects and time taken and 3. impositions, lateness, detentions etc.

So - parents got to see column 3 items, impositions etc being signed off by master awarding them, and Headmaster saw the books weekly and could see if homework times were perhaps indicative of too much being set.

Talk about the spy in your hip pocket...

Slightly off topic, Bags, I haven't seen that word "jotters" for years. Brings back many memories.
Okay, back to thread now!!!!

When I was teaching, weighing and packing up ingredients the night before a practical food lesson was counted as homework. Failure to bring correct ingredients without an explanatory note resulted in a detention. This would often be met with, 'It's all my stupid mum's fault. She forgot to put in the margarine.' I used to take great delight in recording the reason for the lunchtime detention in the planner.

We knew that parents would often be the ones packing up ingredients (probably to avoid a mess in the kitchen)but you'd think the little darlings would make the effort to take them out of the fridge as they leave for school. One day a boy brought in his Dad's packed lunch by mistake

I agree that it's the school's responsibility, although as a parent you would probably want to know if your child was regularly failing to show up work. The quality of homework set is also important, and whether it is properly and promptly marked. There is nothing more demotivating than boring homework, set for the sake of it.

My two had 'contact books' rather than planners. Teachers would write indiscretions and messages for home as well as them having to list homework. This had to be signed on a daily basis.
I agree they should be responsible for work at senior school. No amount of nagging will change that.

My daughter now gets texts and phone calls when her 15yr old doesn't hand in 'stuff'. She tried nagging but nothing works.. he's doing ok in class despite the no show homework. I do wonder how much much better he could do though, but I'm rather glad I'm one step removed so to speak.

I think it is supposed to address the following syndrome:

Parent: Did you have any homework darling?

Teenage (or younger) child (lying shamelessly) replies: no/ did it in the lesson/ done it already/ doesn't have to be done until a week Friday/ it's optional