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Do you want what Gove wants for your grandchildren?

(117 Posts)
GadaboutGran Wed 03-Jul-13 18:17:13

What hit me most about arriving in Singapore in February was all the adverts for tutoring, even from the age of 18 months, to make children into brilliant everything from maths wizards to artists. Then I was appalled to see massive adverts down the side of school buildings about their amazing academic & sporting achievements with photos of their high achieving pupils. Gove wants our kids to be like those in Singapore & now he's wanting them to work all summer (I used to love that feeling of long summer holidays) and after school too. Do you want us to go the same way? Driving through a village in Hampshire last week I saw a banner proclaiming the school was 'Ofsted Outstanding' so it looks like we're on the slippery slope.

Mamie Fri 05-Jul-13 06:14:55

Actually I would be interested to know how the Gove admirers think that what he has done will contribute to raising standards. Is it:
1. Changing the examination system several times without any clear strategy for what is going to happen in the next few years.
2. Introducing a new national curriculum for this September which has not yet been finalised.
3. Setting up hundreds of academies, which are not performing any better than existing secondary schools (Ofsted data).
4. Setting up Free Schools (none of which has had an outstanding judgement and one of which is already in special measures) with unqualified teachers in areas where there are already many surplus places.
5. Failing to tackle the significant crisis in school places in many other areas (see above.).
6. Demoralizing the teaching profession.
7. Refusing to meet and engage with school leaders.
8. Writing a history curriculum, described by Simon Schama as "like 1066 and All That, but without the jokes".
9. Appearing to believe that the word data is the plural of the word anecdote.
10. Giving every school a signed copy of the Bible.

Not "flak", Sel and Ana, just genuinely interested to hear your evidence of how his policies are raising standards.

Mamie Fri 05-Jul-13 05:43:45

You might be interested in this report in the Telegraph, Sel, which explains that the data from international tests are by no means as clear as the headlines suggest.
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9841599/International-education-league-tables-are-misleading.html

annodomini Thu 04-Jul-13 23:38:54

I know that this isn't going to convince the Gove Admiration Society (GAS) but they might like to have a look at this video to see the way in which their hero bends the truth - to put it mildly.

Sel Thu 04-Jul-13 22:52:29

Ahhh, OK Ana I'll stand by and wait for the flack smile

Ana Thu 04-Jul-13 22:49:42

The condemnation isn't universal, Sel. It's just that those of us who have a quiet admiration for Gove probably don't think it worth exposing ourselves to the outrage which would greet our views...hmm

Sel Thu 04-Jul-13 22:43:20

There seems to be universal condemnation of Michael Gove on Gransnet. Why? Doesn't anyone acknowledge that the UK has fallen down the global league tables in education? Does everyone think we still have a gold standard here - that we are producing employable youngsters, the envy of the world? Well, some schools are and sadly they are not the ones that Michael Gove is attempting to improve.

Deedaa Thu 04-Jul-13 22:09:12

My SiL has been teaching for several years Gadabout he may not start early but for the last couple of weeks he's been working at the school till nearly 10 oclock at night. Not conducive to evenings at home with small children!

I still can't understand why they are so insistent that children shouldn't miss a minute of school (The latest thing was send them to school when they're ill because adults would go into work - something else I don't agree with!) they seem to know so little at the end of it. General Knowledge seems to be a thing of the past, and certainly don't lets waste time on the arts. I read that you need a mark of 20% the get a C grade in chemistry. When I got 24% in my mock GCE chemistry I was asked politely to leave, because that was a definite fail.

GadaboutGran Thu 04-Jul-13 20:32:03

Bluebell: a link
http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/02/mass-walkout-by-teachers-at-croydon-school-over-unrealistic-7am-starts-3866247/
and others if you google mass walk out by staff.

Cagsy Thu 04-Jul-13 13:40:42

I hate our education system now and the drive for every child to reach certain standards, and 5 A-Cs being an absolute minimum. Kids learn at different speeds, have different interests and instincts. This pressure is felt by heads, many of whom then bully staff - just ask the teachers you know and parents are pressuring their children. If Gove had his way childhood would be abolished in favour of bootcamps where 5 year olds would probably be boarded to make sure they work long enough hours.
My daugher is home educating her 2 young sons, and whilst doubtful at first I now totally support the wisdom of her decision.
If the government held a Summer Fair and put Gove in stocks and charged us to throw wet sponges at him we could clear the national debt selling the sponges!

bluebell Thu 04-Jul-13 10:33:50

Gad have you a link ?

GadaboutGran Thu 04-Jul-13 10:27:40

Three cheers for those teachers in a Croydon school who all resigned because the new Head insists they arrive by 7a.m. every morning. Many teachers seem to arrive early already but by choice I guess & if they don't have young kids to get ready for school. Still, suppose they'll all have to be shoved into breakfast clubs run by women on low wages who have to be there by 6.30am. Why have kids at all? Of course if we didn't then there'd be no need for schools .. or Gove the Cove ...

Greatnan Thu 04-Jul-13 10:21:41

Now there is some talk of giving the C of E more powers in education - as a secularist, I find this alarming.
I don't find much to admire about the USA, but at least it is illegal to teach specific religions in state schools (i.e. indoctrinate). 'Faith' schools are private and fee-paying.

Bags Thu 04-Jul-13 10:01:24

I've always felt that the removal of LEA powers was a completely political act and had nothing to do with actual education.

Bags Thu 04-Jul-13 09:59:13

I had similar experience as a chair of governors in the eighties, anno. Not the grant maintained stuff, but the helpfulness of the LEA. The LEA maintained the school grounds, including allowing bluebells to flourish on some grass alongside the school drive which, since the employment of florally ignorant contractors have been mown down every year since. I was also extremely glad of LEA input when we had to select a new headteacher. The retiring HT was a hard act to follow and the LEA help in organising and running the process of selecting a new one was invaluable.

maggiemaybe and deedaa: good posts. I agree.

annodomini Thu 04-Jul-13 09:02:39

Around 25 years ago, I was involved, as a governor and political activist, in the fight against grant-maintained schools. At that time, we saw no need for our schools to opt out of the care of the LEA which, in our case, was one of the best. Governors had an annual vote on whether or not to put GM status to a ballot of parents. Where are the parental ballots in this woeful situation imposed from the top by Gove? Is he afraid of a democratic vote? In our authority two schools had ballots, and both parent bodies voted against GM status. Gove persistently lies about the amount of power wielded by LEAs. This has consistently diminished since the 1980s with Local Management of Schools. This was accomplished easily and peacefully with the guiding hand of the LEA. We paid for services like cleaning or opted out if we preferred; we paid for an expert clerk to our governing bodies and as a Chair of Governors I was grateful for the guidance of officers from the HR department of the LEA. Gove is hell bent on sweeping away this infrastructure, in a completely irrational vendetta against LEAs.

nanaej Thu 04-Jul-13 08:42:30

Gove is a manipulative and malevolent beast.

On one hand he talk about giving schools /heads more choice, parents more choice (about types of schools availableconfused but at the same time is forcing through changes to the system without any evidence that it is wanted by schools or parents or that it will improve things for kids.

Funding is being dramatically reduced, teachers pay and conditions undermined...this will lead to small schools unable to attract more experienced or 'excellent' teachers when they have vacancies.

Academies ..ie schools only accountable to DfES are increasing so local area accountability /needs/ knowledge will not be easy to access to plan places etc in local areas

Curriculum still not agreed..it is to be taught in September!

Of course he knows what he's doing..he is a minister hmm

Greatnan Thu 04-Jul-13 08:31:32

Micelf - my GD1 works ten hour shifts as a supervisor in a local hotel and is studying for an LLB with the OU, as well as sharing care of her two children with her partner, who works part-time as a postman and is also studying with the OU for a degree in design technology! They are just about the most hard-working and determined couple I know. She is hoping to become a parent governor of the school and I know she will be vigilant in monitoring her daughter's progress. They have spent many hours in pre-reading activities, number games and educational visits, and if Zara does not seem to be happy, secure, and learning new skills they will be quite ready to confront the head.
It is quite a deprived area of Hull, and my concern is for those children who don't have such knowledgeable and confident parents.

Lilygran Thu 04-Jul-13 08:07:42

There already are state schools that set their own holiday dates, one in Leeds was on the news the other day. The pupils seemed to like it and the Head made a good case but the Head of one of the feeder primaries wasn't thrilled. He said it was a problem that half the top class disappeared to secondary school in June. They didn't ask any parents how they managed with children on holiday at different times. And again, Govey's messages are confusingly mixed. Schools should act as child-care by staying open longer but to hell with parents' needs when it comes to holidays. Academies will be free to make their own decisions but if anything goes wrong, central government will zoom in. Schools will be free to develop their own curriculum but exams will be designed by the Minister. MiceElf he isn't taking any of this through the parliamentary route, he's doing it on ministerial authority.

MiceElf Thu 04-Jul-13 08:02:37

That's hard. Greatnan. I hope your GD has inherited your persistence and is caucusing with the PTA!

Greatnan Thu 04-Jul-13 07:56:23

For parents in villages there is rarely more than one school to choose, especially if they don't have their own transport. My ggd has been attending pre-school for some time and is very bright, sociable and looking forward to going to school with the friends from pre-school. As this is a trial (I have no idea what that implies) my gd is going to see how it works out.

I was particularly incensed by the way Gove simply lied about free schools, perverting the statistics.

Greatnan Thu 04-Jul-13 07:55:06

For parents in villages there is rarely more than one school to choose, especially if they don't have their own transport. My ggd has been attending pre-school for some time and is very bright, sociable and looking forward to going to school with the friends from pre-school. As this is a trial (I have no idea what that implies) my gd is going to see how it works out.

I was particularly incensed by the way Gove simply lied about free schools, perverting the statistics.

MiceElf Thu 04-Jul-13 07:32:25

Yes, it was Greatnan's post I was responding to. I would be reluctant to allow my children to attend a school which was organised in this way.

I love the new title His Ministerialness.

suzied Thu 04-Jul-13 07:28:28

When Govey started one of the first things he did was spend ££££s on sending an embossed Bible to every school. This assumes that schools didn't already have bibles? And what good is one anyway - to be passed round a class? My husband has his copy as a bookend in his office.

Mamie Thu 04-Jul-13 07:27:31

Jess, I think MiceElf was referring to the 60 reception children with one teacher and two assistants bit.

JessM Thu 04-Jul-13 07:21:10

Not sure what you mean miceself re legality? This weeks ministerial pronouncement was "schools can set their own terms" - this is relatively minor as academies can already do this. But they don't make major changes because unless all schools in the area have similar holidays parents are inconvenienced - and a large number of teachers are parents. so all it means is a few days tweaking around the starts and ends.
His ministerialness was also pontificating recently about the length of the school year which was what I was on about. Never get that past the unions - it would not be the fight he would pick.