Feminism

I would like to see our younger generation as enthusiastic and committed to feminism as we were.

Thanks for this link Greatnan - I've shared it on my face pack page. I would also like to see the younger generation embracing feminism. My own daughters used to tease me about my feminism, when they were in their teens. They are now in their late twenties, and still don't identify themselves as feminists, despite living what in the early 70's would have seemed totally liberated lives. They and their friends are likeable, hard working young women, who enjoy life to the full (it seems) as they make their way in careers and relationships. Some of their group have had their first children, and without exception, were astounded to learn that when I had my first daughter 42 years ago, maternity leave didn't exist, women couldn't get a mortgage, etc etc etc. Equality still has a way to go doesn't it

We keep getting this story about women not getting mortgages in the 1970s. Both my sisters and two friends all bought properties in the 1970s, early on and later. None of them had any more problem that DH and I did. In fact I think we had more problems because Building Societies were very suspicious of including a wife's income when calculating how much they would lend because they were convinced that women would stop work any day to have a baby.

And, yes, we did tend to stop work then because maternity leave was not available and companies wouldn't even consider someone coming back to work part time instead of full time.

When I was a head teacher, in the 1970's, I wanted to buy a stereogram on hire purchase. I was told at Rumbelows that I had to have my husband's signature, even though I earned more than he did. I played merry hell and got an abject letter of apology from the CEO
I suspect different banks and building societies operated different policies on mortgages.

The same happened to me, Greatnan. I wanted to buy a sewing machine on HP in 1973 and was sent away from the shop with a form for my husband to sign. Angry? I was livid! I got one from a catalogue instead.

Greatnan I had a similar problem when buying a gas cooker - and I wasn't eve looking for higher purchase. I pointed out rather icily that I wasn't married so waiting for my husband's signature would cause a considerable delay. I wanted to pay 75% up front and the remainder on delivery, a good choice as it turned out because of missing oven linings.

In the early 70s my mum was divorced, had a job, but still needed her FATHER'S signature on an HP agreement! He found it humiliating to ask and even rose when the devil said he wouldn't sign.

She found it humiliating to ask and even worse.... Darned predictive text!!

LIKe it or not that was the 70"s.

Thank goodness for the Sex Discrimination Act. No wonder we became feminists, with experiences of blatant sexism and being patronised and dismissed. Our daughters don't have the obstacles to face that we did, but there's still a long way to go.

I remember my brave mum trying to (pay for a funeral..my dad) sort the mortgage, buy tv all that stuff when I was a kid, four of us ...she was a strong woman and taught me well!! I don't think she ever took a No as an answer....

it wasn't just women though, I remember my boyfriend (now husband) having to get his father to sign a credit agreement to buy a suit from John Collier in 1970. He was over 21 so I don't know what age they considered you to be a responsible adult. (Considering the amount of debt our son managed to run up in his early 20's it's a shame they ever stopped wanting guarantors.)

Nonu - are you aware of the terrible conditions of women in some parts of the world? And there is still some covert discrimination against women in the UK so we must resist the temptation to be smug or to say 'I'm all right, Jill'

Or even Jack !!

My DH and I were buying something together on HP in the late 60s. I was a civil servant, he was a submariner. The salesman was filling out the form and automatically put 'housewife ' against my name without asking. DH saw it, and told the bloke he had better erase that or risk death! He told the salesman we were equal partners and neither one of us was married to the house! I think that old salesman was shocked into entering the modern world that day.

Another time we were looking to buy a house and the bank manager only wanted to take DH's wage into consideration as I might have a baby. I told him I would not have any babies until I was financially ready, and I was on the pill. He blushed bright red in shock at 'the pill' being mentioned in mixed company, and dismissed our application. (we got a mortgage at a different bank)

Times were bad for feminism back then, but I never gave in. I get mad when young ones take all the rights we fought for as if they just happened. It is like wage rises and better work conditions - we fought for everything through the unions, but people think these conditions arose out of the goodness of employers' hearts, and go along with the media and right wing -driven demonisation of trade unions.

Bah humbug!!!

Even today I don't balk at negotiating my wage. I work freelance...I negotiate my pay for every job. Don't be afraid to get paid what you are worth. To quote Loreal 'you're worth it' !.......if you can do a good job.

I left university before the equal pay act was passed in the UK and somewhere I still have a letter rejecting my job application for a sub-editor's job on the grounds that I was a woman.

Modern feminists should check out Pink Stinks.

Greatnan

If you want equal treatment for women it has got to be expected that men will get equal treatment to women i.e. no complaints if they want to go in to Bums and Tums classes.
I would say 99% of the women do not complain.
When they has ladies classes a lot were attending mixed classes as well.

Frank

Comparatively speaking, Bums and Tums is pretty small potatoes.

Following my interview by a panel of 12, and subsequent offer of my first post as a qualified social worker, I was called in to talk things through with the then assistant director. I expected him to ask him about the child care arrangements for my daughter, who was then aged 8. Instead, he asked me who was the guilty party in my divorce, which was then ongoing. I was stunned, and asked him what that had to do with me being offered a job. He seemed surprise to be questioned, and told me it was to ensure the department only employed "stable" people. I still go the job, and colleagues were shocked he'd asked me this, especially as he'd only recently been arrested for shop lifting.
Joan - agreed, we kept fighting for progress and though sometimes I feel we haven't made enough difference, this thread shows what positive changes there have been in society.
Frank - go a walk or something

I agree with your stance on the exercise class, Frank, but you have to admit that men don't have quite the same bums and tums issues as women do. Perhaps a change of club/class name is in order?

I am sure not even Frank can compare the treatment of women in some cultures with his problems with mixed classes.
When I was being interviewed for a very senior post in education, by the usual butcher, baker and candlestick maker of the local Tory council, one of them asked me if I intended to have any more children. I offered to show him the scar. The Deputy Director for special education gave him both barrels. This was 1974.

Nonu - I thought 'Jill' was more appropriate in the circumstances.

Oh keyboards/predictive texting!!!
I shouldn't laugh but you have to when iam64 says in her post
yesterday
"Thanks for this link Greatnan - I've shared it on my face pack page"

The question is- is predictive texting set by MEN and therefore sexist?
(Or maybe you do have a face pack page in which case I apologise and decide I had better revise my beauty regime)