Richard Dawkins in the elevator

He could have had his wicked way with you easy peasy.

Well I'm glad you weren't in the lift then Galen!

I'm one of those people who prefer to ascribe innocent intentions to others, rather than always looking for the worst possible! Sorry!

Yeah, right!

He might have just been asking her if she wanted a coffee?

There are things much worse in the world, yes, but were asked our opinions about this issue. I agree with lots of things Dawkins has to say, but I'm not so sure he understands the psyche of women if he doesn't get that some situations aren't leg-over opportunities, albeit a rebuff accepted, and this example is one of them.

Well, I am anyway.

That's beside the point Galen. We're muck raking. And enjoying it.

I'm with Bags. I agree with Dawkins! There are much worse things in the world.

Well, it would have been important to them I would have thought. Whatever, she was due more respect than that.

Think what the atheists would have made of it if it had been the other way round!

The post where Bags quotes her - she said she was drunk herself.

That's exactly what I meant Bags.

You wanted to exonerate Dawkins and looked for something to discredit the woman. You told us she was 'not an altogether nice woman'.

Not sure what you meant by that incidentally.

But what has her niceness or otherwise got to do with it?

Dawkins' post was childish and unpleasant. His misogyny comes through loud and clear to me.

Having said that, I've been to rather a lot of conferences in the past and it is often the case that people are hoping to get laid (not me of course).

That's twice I've done that - time to leave this thread, I think!

Who said she was drunk? [puzzled]

I'm seriously losing the plot here....

Why? What's so solemn about atheism? Sorry, jingl, I just don't get your point. It could have been an important conference about anything...

I guess if a man propositions a drunk woman in the elevator of their hotel at 4 am, and the lift is going up towards their rooms, there is sexism involved. She's unable to give consent if he's looking for sex, and probably doesn't need coffee in his room. I perceive it as him making assumptions that she might agree. Unless he was the type who wouldn't take advantage of a drunk woman, should she have said 'yes' to coffee? But then, if he wasn't the type to take advantage, he wouldn't have asked her in the first place?

They had been both been attending an important conference about atheism. (God knows what they found to talk about but that's another subject) He should have shown her some respect. Wrong time, wrong place.

Well said, ana. Glad someone can see through the dross.

But he didn't pester her when she turned down his offer, so he might as well have been inviting her for coffee and a chat (which is apparently what he actually said).

So, would it be sexism if a woman had given the same invitation to a man? I'm sure it happens.

What's atheism got to do with anything? [puzzzled] He fancied her, she either did or didn't fancy him but declined his offer/proposition/whatever, and that should have been the end of it. If she'd propositioned him I doubt he would have complained about it...

Was verybelittling for her. She had been attending a World Atheist Conference, and all the man in the lift could think of was getting her into bed. Where was the respect?

Yes. It was sexist. (She's a woman. Only one thing really counts)

Well, in that case, I apologise, lily.

petallus, actually I went looking for stuff to exonerate someone whom I know not to be a misogynist and against whom a lot of bullshit is spouted.

So the question remains, is it sexist or for a man to proposition a woman (if that's what it was; looks likely but we can't really know) but to accept her refusal? I'd say no it isn't. I'd say that was civilised. I presume women do similar things sometimes. Are they being sexist too?

Yes, I thought it would start a discussion. That's why people post stuff. Posting doesn't equal muck-raking!