Being more German??

Yes the South of Germany is RC but all Germans pay Church tax BUT they can opt out of it and a lot do. On the other hand many hospitals, kindergarten and care homes are financed partly by church tax, so lapsed Catholics like DH still pay the tax - regarding it as a donation.

purpleHS when travelling South you will pass over the Gruess Gott border. That is the line where you stop saying 'Guten Tag' and say 'Gruss Gott'
Looking on your map of Germany it is South of Wurzburg. So don't be surprised if you are met with this form of greeting. For us who live in South Germany it is like coming home, and even pilots on planes flying to Stuttgart will use it to make his landsmen and women feel at home.

Thanks once again to Oldgreymare, MargaretX & LizG for all the tips, hints & enticements! Between you, together with warm endorsement from Greatnan you have have focussed us beautifully on the Moselle & the south, along with great suggestions on where to visit - for that, many thanks. The trip is taking shape & we feel very good about heading south (well, it's hopefully going to be sunnier/warmer) and as we enjoy pottering along rivers (Loire, Dordogne) your ideas fill the bill very nicely.

We're very familiar with France - even have a French DiL & extended family there because of this, so Germany in the motorhome will be a new experience and the lack of height barriers will be welcome!

The only space I can offer LizG in the van is in the bathroom, which will be full of other bits, bobs & the fold up bike.....but if you could perch on the top maybe this would do.....?!

I certainly think they are a lot more sociable in the South of Germany !!!

That's an interesting point about the differences in attitudes about personal space MargaretX. When we meet friends & neighbours of our son we have nothing but kindness, very different from when on stations, queueing or getting off planes.

Tegan- yes it is true certainly in Bavaria, though agreements can be made with friendly neighbours if the activity is not too noisy. Bavaria is still very religious (Catholic). Registered Church members also pay an extra tax (not sure what it goes on & I think Protestants pay one as well as Catholics). Having a quiet Sunday is rather nice - if you don't need to do DIY or mow the lawn.

I have just had a week's cruise on the River Moselle and I can strongly recommend it.
I got lost several times on my way from France to Koblenz (because I got bored with the Motorway!) and found many Germans who were able to give me directions in English.
The 'is it better here than in England' question pops up regularly on French expat forums and there is never a consensus. As far as I am concerned, it is just different, and I have adjusted to French bureaucracy, products, opening times, etc. over the years.

Sorry I meant overnighting only on camp sites if you are staying longer.

PurpleHS The latest ruling on Motorhomes is that you can park anywhere in Germany but overnighting is not allowed for any length of time.
Have good time
Gute Reise!

Gadabout your son is experiencing the same mixture of good and bad that anyone does who goes to live in a new country. The first 20 years are the worst! someone told me and it was true.

The Germans are definitely more relaxed than when I came in 1969, but the Brits have changed too. I like the polite form of greeting,I like being called Frau XXX. by children and teenagers.
You do not get that politeness on buses and trains like in the UK but we English carry a space around with us and feel that anyone moving into this space has to apologise. Germans don't feel that. They have an internal private sphere and you have to be careul you don't intrude upon that.
The differences are so varied that businessmen take courses on how to behave in a foreign country. I have taught these courses myself

Purplehairstreak I have just turned a delicate shade of green with envy as I have to wait until next year for a trip to Germany. My two favourite campsites of all time are in the Black Forest.

Both France and Germany - unlike the UK - welcome motorhomes and you rarely come across height restrictions in Supermarket car parks as you do here. Sadly I think France welcomes MH's but not 'foreigners' but Germany will welcome you with open arms.

Have a wonderful time and if you have some space in the van, it wouldn't take me long to pack. Bother I have just remembered my passport runs out in September!

I saw the last bit of the programme last night about not making any noise on Sundays]. Is that true?

Oldgreymare & MargaretX thanks so much to both of you for positive suggestions - I can now just about bear to wait until we go after your input! As we'll be in our motorhome (and Germany is reputedly great for these & very MH friendly) we can be flexible as we have no plans beyond crossing the North Sea & arriving in the Netherlands.

I'll pass on your suggestions to DH who is poised to start the packing...! (Well, I'll be helping supervising)

I'll be in Munich in a few weeks so will be extra observant.

But will Germans soon be more English? I told my son about the programme & posts. He said things in his office are becoming more relaxed. Last week one of their German staff had a water fight in sight of the boss! He reminded me that when he worked in the UK HQ of a German pharma company (where he met his wife), many of the Germans loved the more relaxed atmosphere & banter & wanted to stay.

He has found many systems e.g. banking to be quite old fashioned & frustrating. He's had too much experience of German hospitals - private ones excellent but the big teaching hospital shares some of the problems of UK ones. He had to wait 7 hours for a 5 min check-up.

Some of the museums are a bit quirky (though that can be good) & don't match up to many UK ones, & are not as child friendly, & they aren't free either.
Best thing about Germany are the cheap rail fares. The system doesn't often break down but when it does, it does big time - as we found out last visit & were thankfully helped by an English guy). Worst thing - even my German DiL says in crowds Germans can be rude & will never help with buggies in the way I get helped in London.

purpleHS Go further South, to where the red roofed Germany begins,
Lake Constance is lovely. The view of the Lake, trips on Lake Steamers. Switzerland just over the border and on clear days the Alps as background scenery. In my opinion the Rhine is touristy and over rated.
Munich is also very good if you are interested in a cultured holiday. Art galleries, Castles, Concert Halls, Museums, Barock cathedrals.

There is a North / South divide in Germany as well as in the UK and I live in the South, my husband was born in Munich.
You can pm me is you would like more info

PurpleHS A mosey along the Moselle is a must with perhaps a little diversion into the Eifel and a visit to Monschau where you can park near the glass factory.
We alternated visits there with visits to Bad Munstereifel. The Ahr valley is good too.
Of course the Rhine valley is super too. You will be spoiled for choice!

It would only take a matter of weeks if you got there and forced yourself to talk to as many people as possible, laidback. I love Vienna too, and find Austrian German so much easier to understand, even though it is 46 years since I lived there for about a year and a half.

I think I'd get fat though if I went there - the food is so good, but they have too many 'Mehlspeisen' (flour-based desserts), and too many coffee houses with all that Strudel etc to temp me. Also, I was a young lass when I lived there - I would miss my youth if I went back.

Sometimes I would spend a whole day in the natural history or art museums, or at other exhibitions, such as a Gustav Klimt exhibition that absolutely fascinated me back then. I was a student, and could usually get in such places free, with my student pass.

I'll shut up now - nostalgia is getting to me!

Don't have that much experiece of germany, my brother lived and studied in dusseldorf for 12 months...he loved it. I studied german at school,visited a good few times but loved Austria, clean, smelt great and was just beautiful to visit and very friendly.Vienna was gorgeous, I could live in Austria very easily if I improved my german and french language!

I let my son-in-law ,who is German, read this thread and he agreed with virtually everything said saying that that was exactly why he preferred living in England. He finds the lifestyle much more relaxing and laid-back here and the people generally more friendly. He misses the German food ,especially the sausages, but finds that shopping at Lidl has generally compensated. He prefers the less intense education system here but still feels there is no need for children to start compulsory education until they are 7 which is what he did.

Am enjoying all the comments from people who've spent more time in Germany than I have (a damp family holiday in the Black Forest back in the 80s). We have no clear plans - a ramble along the Rhine or a mosey along the Moselle. Looking forward to just picking up the ambience whilst supping the coffee & scoffing the cake mentioned earlier - but after that programme will be observing with a keener eye what life's like there. So hopefully will not be too much of a tourist as I like to chat with locals wherever possible. My German is minimally adequate, so I'll probably give them a good laugh when I try it out!

Any suggestions welcomed, especially about what to eat as I don't go for masses of meat - but might manage a bratwurst.

Well yes of course we did do the "in Rome" bit . Just saying that in every other country we have visited credit cards are readily accepted and they are so much easier for travellers. I don't hold it against Germans because of that or anything else. I was simply trying to point out that not everyone who is familiar with the German way of life finds it congenial.

of course the Brits can't become more German that is why it was a ridiculous idea of David Cameron.

i like Europe and found Germany a pleasant country to visit, there seem to be a lot of Brits living there so there must be something about it. Many find work which is scarce in other countries.
You can't hold it against the Germans just because they don't use credit cards for everything like we do. 'In Rome do as the Romans do'

MargaretX there is at least one other category of UK person i.e. those who HAVE visited and spent some time in Germany and do not like it!

Our son and family lived near Frankfurt for three years 2005-2008 and DH and I visited and stayed with them several times for fairly long periods.

We found the atmosphere, throughout our travels to and from and within Germany, to be quite formal and wary. There was little or no attempt to make visitors welcome or to offer help with language difficulties. Credit cards were rarely accepted and we had to carry cash at all times to pay for meals out etc. Stereotypes arise for a reason and we found them to be true of Germany.

We admire the work ethic in Germany but it is very different to the UK in many ways and I cannot see this country ever becoming "more German".

Mmm... bratwürst, off a street-trader's barrow - hot and garlicky. One of my favourite German memories!

And sausages!!

I have fond memories of 3 years spent living in Monchengladbach.
Altho' I found the Saturday afternoon closures (except for one Sat each month, called a long saturday!) and the restrictions on cleaning cars etc after noon on Saturday a bit restricting at first, I soon began enjoy them.
Like German families, we began to spend more time with our children, more time on leisure activities, and felt more relaxed for doing so.
All 'eateries' did a roaring trade at the weekend. I contrast this with the Pub/restaurant where had a meal last night and where we were one of only 3 tables. (The business is up for sale, unsurprisingly) I do accept that discretionary spend is much reduced in the UK tho'.
P.S. German coffee and cakes remain the best, in my opinion!

Terry was a sailor back in the 1960s, and happened to have a septic thumb while in harbour at Cuxhaven. The captain realised he needed better treatment than the ship's medics could give, so he contacted the German authorities, and 2 friendly German sailors turned up, drove him to the hospital, where he remembers going through it like a conveyor belt and coming out at the other end with a perfectly fixed thumb, which healed in no time. He remains impressed with the German hospital system.