Being more German??

vee have vays of making you.....

I once visited my Austrian friend's family for dinner, ( I was an au pair in Vienna) and the Mum was astounded when I got up to help with the washing up. She thought only Austrian and German girls did this!!!! I told her my Mum had brought me up that way, and that we all shared the housework back in Yorkshire, even my brothers. That surprised her even more. Back then, Austrian (and I presume also German) men got away with it completely.

So no - I wouldn't want the German way!!!

Reasons why the German economy flourishes is because 87% of the workforce is unionised, there is compulsory worker representation on all boards and free collective bargaining. But Cameron et al don't want us know that.

I read about this programme in the "Weekend" section of the "Daily Telegraph" on Saturday - and what I found interesting was that the woman journalist who took part in the month long exchange said that Germans generally do not use their telephones, use social media, etc., whilst they work (her DH was working in a factory for a month). Germans actually work shorter hours than we do in the UK, but are more productive - I think giving up personal use of the phone, computer, etc., is an easy exchange for shorter working hours. My DH, before his retirement, worked with German companies, and he said he agreed with what the journalist had written. I am looking forward to watching the actual programme this evening.

I too read the article GillieB refers to in Saturday's Telegraph and watched this programme with interest. My dear departed (German) mother would have been proud of the prominence of my German genes as I felt so much of what I saw made eminent sense! What a great idea to give tax breaks to Mums of young children so that they are not forced to go back to work if they don't want to. What a great idea not to "hothouse" young children with attainment targets and levels and all that stuff but have a forest nursery where they can play in the open air and climb trees without Health&Safety breathing down their necks, And for this nursery to cost 150 Euros a month - wow! Most English nurseries would be charging that per week.Yes, the short German school day does make it harder for working parents, but many regions are introducing (or thinking of ) "Ganztagschulen" (all day school) and even in the UK many secondary schools - not just primaries, already finish around 3 which is not a lot of use to parents who are expected to still be at their desks until 6 or later. And to have a proper weekend - I think iour working Sundays undermine family life. They have got the work/life balance in better proprtion than we have and I have for some time found their standard of living and quality of life enviable. Maybe I am turning Japanese German!

Many years ago, back in the 1970s, there were many strikes in the English Ford factory, but few or none in the German equivalent. Executives were sent to the UK from Germany to find out what was wrong. They reported back that in Germany the workers and bosses speak with the same accent, send their kids to the same schools, and live in the same areas. They said the exact opposite was true in the UK, when led to dreadful social divisions, mistrust, and industrial unrest.

So in today's world Micelf's analysis makes absolute sense.

In my last job, the boss wanted a unionised workforce, and absolutely believed in unions, because when there is a union rate, rival firms cannot undercut you on pay. As the work was very service oriented, and wages were a high proportion of the expenses, this was very important. Union rates - and everyone gets them, whether in the union or not - are what has stopped the downward spiral in pay and conditions here in Australia, and helped get us through the GFC unscathed, much better than the US and the UK.

Another reason that boss prefered workers in the union was that when there was trouble, he had to deal with a union delegate, not a peed off employee.

I suspect that another reason for Germany's economic well-being is that the differential between bosses and workers is very much smaller than it is in the UK. Also, as a rule, bosses don't get regular pay rises of 40% or more.

P.s. I know that these figures do no apply to small and family businesses.

Germans in general do not rack up huge debts on credit cards and shareholders are in for the long haul and not short term profits

Also they value 'non academic' education - good technical education and do not have the elitist public school system that pollutes our society

Just watched this programme on iPlayer and I think that I must have some German genes. I did spend five years living in Germany and enjoyed my time there very much; when people ask me about my German friends I usually say they worked hard and played hard. German children are (well, they were when I lived there in the early 70's) totally cosseted. I used to get into so much trouble for allowing my toddler to walk to many places rather than putting her in a pushchair - it was not unusual to see four and five year olds still being pushed around. I used to take my children on the local bus and complete strangers would press money into my children's hands or give them packets of sweets or chocolate. My eldest daughter actually started to work the system by the time she was three, she knew that if she chatted to people the 'spoils' would be greater. Since I no longer do paid work I think the four hours a day doing washing/ironing/cooking/cleaning/gardening is probably about right too.

I worked with a German girl and she felt that England was more polerised than Germany as far as housing was concerned. Also when my children were young I met a couple of German mothers at a mother and toddler group and they thought that there were clusters of mothers in our area who were obsessed with private education and talked of little else, they couldn't understand it because they said in Germany pretty much everyone put their children into the state system. I knew the type of women they were talking about, I had one across the road from me, who simply assumed that I had moved to our house as it was up the road to a private prep school where her children went. My children being pre-school age at that time. I had never said anything that should have given her that impression that I was going to educate them privately this was an assumption on her part and when I told her they were going to state schools she physically recoiled as if had told her we had contracted the Bubonic Plague!

Do the Germans have to put up with these ghastly zero hour contracts that are being inflicted on so many of our workers over here anyone know?

Loved many aspects of German life as shown on this programme on BBC2. Especially the fact that they have such a strong tradition with apprenticeships and secondary schools aimed at children less academic but with a good education towards the skilled trades. When Thatcher did away with apprenticeships she helped to ruin this country.
My daughter actually lived in Nuremberg for a year and loved it. It was clean, safe and friendly. She and her boyfriend of the time did find it odd that so many mums didn't go to work.

I found the programme very interesting, but I wonder if it painted an idealised view of German life? For example, part of the reason for the general lower level of personal debt is that unlike in the UK, German tenants have security of tenure in the rented sector, so there is not the same pressure to own a place of your own.

The programme centred very much on the white middle classes, and I think that life for ethnic minorities is not quite so cosy. I used to sometimes lecture in Germany to German teachers, who were always amazed at the resources we had available in the UK to help children whose first language was not English. They seemed to have the attitude that it was not their responsibility to help foreigners learn German.

I love Germany and we visit regularly. Our friends all seem to work both male and female. They do love to show off their English which is great for this elderly camper who finds it very difficult to link in to any language apart from English. I am so glad I didn't watch the programme because I should hate to have my view dented. Not too sure my little home could handle four hours housework though, it's the dirt that holds it together.

Yes, I think I have some German blood in my veins my maiden name could, kinda suggest this, and I feel so at home there.

I watched the programme with interest as am shortly going to Germany on holiday. Overall, the lifestyle choices were pure common sense, also not using on-line media whilst at work, not wasting time chatting etc. Childcare costs were a dream and the environmental setting for the nursery & encouragement to play creatively reminded me of the Steiner approach. The 4 hours of hausfrau work is now a standing joke in our household - realistically how would anyone find enough to keep do, like keep cleaning etc. in a small apartment? Also there would be a strong risk of getting very bored doing so much housework....

What really concerned me was the diet that was shown in the programme -meaty meaty all the way, topped off with gravy & mashed spuds - only evidence of veg was the cold saukraut and what about excersise? They all seemed to be getting around mostly by car.

Very interesting/thought provoking & although it reminded me a bit of life in the UK in the 1950's, there were some essential common sense message in it.

Lucky you Purplehairstreak , I just love Germany and the Germans , when we go to Mauritius there are lots of them there in the hotel .

What I like about them they know how to enjoy themselves , bit like me .

PS , I have also been to Germany .

I loved our times in Germany; Theseus was never posted there long term, but his father was with BAOR, and his (father's!) second wife was German, so we were there a lot.

DS2 studied German at university, and enjoyed his year there as an assistant.

And of course, there are the cakes and tortes.....

I love the idea of Forest nurseries. I know someone who tired to get the idea taken up in a small primary school in NI badly affected by a bomb 15 years ago & her bosses thought she was crazy.

My son & Half German DiL aren't typical as DiL is very stressed by working too hard though she does finish work at the proper hour to get son from expensive private multi-lingual Nursery. But then her Mum was Anglo Kiwi and she went to an International school & US Universities.

They both worked in a German pharma company in England & the Germans there loved the relaxed atmosphere & all the banter which son said doesn't happen in his German office.
Yes, purplehairstreak they eat lots of pork & drink lots of beer in Bavaria but they are also out cycling, ski-ing & walking a lot in their leisure time & have well marked trails & cycle routes to help. They also have to clear the snow from outside their homes by 7am in winter.

Some of our stereotyped views have been challenged especially by the awful workmanship of the builders who built their house & the dodgy alcoholic developer who has done them out of a lot of money by going bankrupt - they even had to pay the bankruptcy admin guy to ensure the bankruptcy went through which in the end was in their interests. They don't appear to have LA Building Inspectors as we do here or any free Consumer Protection agencies. My son notices how Germans seem to throw money at solving a problem rather than fighting for their rights or fixing things themselves - but maybe that's just in wealthy Munich.

My uncle married a German lady. She seemed very exotic to us kids in the 50s. She wore high heels and make up which our mother never did. She called us darling and used to send my mum parcels of unusual sausages (!) from Germany on occasion. My mother had no idea what to do with them.
My uncle didn't meet her until he was well into his 40s and she was his first and only wife. I was rubbish at school but because she helped me with my German I was always top of the class. Unfortunately she became mentally ill in later life and my poor uncle had a terrible time with her.

I love Germany and the Germans. Being a Virgo I love order and cleanliness.
What was that woman on about when she said that she couldn't see where there was 4 hrs housework to do, she had two children there and no outside work to do.
Igot the measure of her when she said " I went to a down market supermarket, Lidl !!!

I must watch that show - expecting a new 1/2 German
grandchild in Berlin in February !

When I'm at my daughter's in South London I moan about all the rubbish in the streets but when I visit son in Munich it is so clean & perfect I want to muck it up & long for the reality & humanity of Tooting.
The other thing son finds hard is that he can only do DIY at the weekends but Sunday DIY & noise is banned & shops are closed from Sat lunch time. That means everyone rushes to the Germany equivalent of B&Q (Obi I think) on Sat morning & crowds it out, then the rush to complete the task on Saturday & if you find you need something else it has to wait until the next weekend.

We do love having a reason to visit Germany & explore beautiful places that we wouldn't otherwise have visited, though you can get fed up with yet another quaint Mediaeval town with wall to wall half-timbered houses.

My son's German neighbours have been lovely to them, especially when they've had problems - & they even gave their permission for son to cut tiles outside last Sunday.

The book 'Germania' by Simon Winder gives some interesting insights into Germany & the Germans.