At it again

Dawkins, quote 'All the world's Muslims have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge. They did great things in the Middle Ages, though.'

If he'd just confined his tweet to the first sentence, I would have interpreted it as a lament that Muslims have not had the recognition they deserve since the Nobel Prize started a century ago, or maybe some insight into how many Muslims undertake research at Trinity. This cryptic tweet is provocative. What's he up to now?

Hmm.....I think he has made a mistake with that one.

Numerically or politically?

Muslims did do great things in the Middle Ages - they led in Science and Mathematics among other things - but then fundamentalist Islam put and end to it - however, they still claim to be doing great things based on the 'knowledge' of the Koran. And that isn't true, which is what Richard is pointing out.

Funny - criticise Christianity and he gets complaints that he 'wouldn't say that about Islam' - when he criticises Islam the same people complain that he is treading dangerously!

He chose to compare with a Cambridge College - but he could have chosen, say, Jews - who have large numbers of Nobel winners in their ranks.

Yes indeed. They invented maths as we know it and their medicine in the middle ages was far more advanced than the bleedem purgem practice in the Christian world.
But one could argue it is a mainly white, mainly male club, nobel prizes. Look at some of the people who have had peace prizes...
Dawkins is beginning to look like someone who cannot control his inner naughty teenager, trying to bait the teacher.

inner naughty teenager says it all.

Silly tweet but it's true that Islam appears to have gone backwards since the dark ages of christianity, whereas all other major religions have progressed, and science has come on leaps and bounds. Extreme Islam still suppresses education (especially of women) and is oppressive rather than encouraging free thinking.

I read somewhere that it was because they used Greek scholarly writings that christianity had suppressed (apart from Aristotle) that made the difference, i.e. it was not Islamic scholarship as such. They simply opened up what had been closed books to christians till then.

And then they regressed.

PS Why shouldn't he be provocative? It's what he does best and boy does it get people ranting talking.

Nothig to say just fancied getting 7 in a row ! LOL

He must be regretting tweeting that! Even he must realise how silly, and desperate sounding, it was.

I make it 11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed and now - Why do so many Nobel laureates look like Richard Dawkins?

www.newstatesman.com/religion/2013/08/why-do-so-many-nobel-laureates-look-richard-dawkins

I have to say that the parody in Private Eye is absolutely priceless

In this instance Bags, it's got people sneering at him. Not good.

I think it is not possible to say that Islam has gone backwards. There are some truly horrific attitudes and ideas promulgated by the fundamentalists, but, equally, there are many many adherents of Islam who are distinguished scientists and medical practitioners. A quick trawl through university departments and hospitals will be enlightening.

The great tragedy is that for a small golden moment in early modernity, in academia, scientists, philosophers and other academics from Islam, Judaism and Christianilty often worked together, respecting the different traditions and backgrounds of all.

I've always felt that denigrating a belief or position by focussing on its odder manifestations simply makes people dig in their heels and become more entrenched and resentful.

Well for a start, 50% of potential achievers in Islamic countries are not even permitted to learn - the women, of course.

I know that there are many 'moderate' muslims in this country, but as someone said recently in a video, until they stop giving refuge to the criminals in their mosques they are complicit in the horrific and barbaric acts that are carried out.

Another interesting comment on the Dawky www.newstatesman.com/religion/2013/08/why-do-so-many-nobel-laureates-look-richard-dawkins I particularly like Nelson Jones' point that the USA has more Nobels than any other category of winners AND more fundamentalist Christians. But it is a more thoughtful article than that would suggest.

Sorry, vegasmags, I should have read the thread with more attention.

An interesting essay on the history of medicine in the islamic world

And here is Dawkins' reply to the Twitter storm. Some tweeters seemed to understand all that right from the start.

Just not true feetlebaum Malaysia for instance lots of muslim women go to university. And many others.
Bit of a ramble that essay bags.
Giving the Greeks all the credit is possibly part of the whole "lets not give the Muslim's credit" thing. When Ferdinand and Isabella drove the arabs and their learning out of Andalus they completed the anti-scientific dominion of the vatican in Europe (and of course the victors write history). Dissection was not allowed. Doctors examined urine not patients. Surgery was considered a low calling to be undertaken by barbers not physicians.
They paved the way for the Inquisition and we all know their attitude to science - look what they did to Gallileo.
The Arabs invented zero I think, without which most maths pretty impossible. Also - where did the word al-gebra come from?
It is very sad that this great tradition of learning was ethnically cleansed 600 years or so ago.
It is an interesting question - why has the islamic world lagged so far behind. Suspect that one of the factors is the dominance of religious power structures - if education equals learning the scriptures it is not a great starting point. Apparently there are orthodox Jews in Israel that hold the same line re educating their children - Torah only, nothing else in the curriculum.

Anyone out there read The Physician (Noah Gordon)? As an historical romance, it gives what I think is a good fictional version of what early medieval medicine must have been like. And I note that Dawkins thinks that because people counter his arguments with insults, it somehow validates his opinions.

Interesting post Jess M covering so many points. It's certainly true that the fundies,of whatever persuasion, have had a malign influence on freedom of thought and advancement of knowledge. However, I think it's simplistic to assign 'progress' or the lack of it, to any one ethnic, national or religious group. Frequently, advancement is the consequence of a complex set of factors - economic, political, social, environmental and so on, for example, the start of the industrial revolution in England. So many developments there were led by Nonconformists who were barred from the traditional professions because of their religious beliefs.

Bit like the jews in banking and finance micelf - not allowed to do much else so they became experts in a narrow field. You're right that the industrial revolution gave science a leg up in this country.
A couple of hundred years before that the likes of Newton and Hook took up the baton that had been wrenched from the hands of the andalusians. No coincidence that the UK was protestant at the time.

JessM - Well, good for Malaysia. But on the other hand there are many African states, there's Pakistan, there's the rise of Islamists in Turkey and there's always Saudi Arabia. there are burnt schools, dead schoolgirls, floggings, mutilations, beheadings...

Of course five hundred years ago there were the Christians misbehaving in similar ways, I suppose...