feeling proud to be British

.. I don't know where Dumfries or Galloway are without looking on a map, so if someone said they were going there for a holiday I would expect that person to possibly explain to me that they were going to Scotland, and then elaborate as to whereabouts in Scotland.

A Scot, or someone living in .scotland would say they were going to Dumfries. Or they'd say they were going to Galloway.

Just as I don't say I live in Argyll & Bute. I don't live on Bute (which is an island for those who may not know); I live in Argyll.

Dumfries & Galloway and Argyll & Bute are regional council areas rathers than discrete places. Dumfries, Galloway, Argyll, Bute are all separate geographical areas.

I think southerners (including Welsh people) mentioning that they are going to Dumfries and/or Galloway would usually add "in south west Scotland" unless they knew their audience would have that knowledge already.

A southerners might say they are going to The Highlands. A Scot or 'lover of Scotland and things Scottish (scotophile means something else!) would specify which part of the highlands they were going to as it covers half of the country.

Unless one is going to walk the entire Pennine Way, one wouldn't normally say one was going to The Pennines, I think, as such a term is unhelpful given the length and variety of that feature.

Similarly, the people I know specify which part of Wales they are going to if they are going there. Or, if they are vague and just say Wales, I ask "whereabouts in Wales?" Doesn't everyone?

I think exactly the same applies to Scotland or France for that matter. "We're going to Scotland" "Oh, lovely, whereabouts?' and it is a lot bigger than Wales.

I don't understand this discussion - what does it matter how somebody tells you where they are going on holiday? If they are interested, they will ask you to be more specific. I say 'I am going to New Zealand' and sometimes people who know the country ask me to tell them more - most people don't. When I say I live in France, most people ask me whereabouts in France, as it is such a big country and many people know various regions. When I used to take my holidays in Wales or Scotland I would specify the town/region because most of the people I told would be familiar with the countries. So what?

So Thatbags, in your view those who have said I holiday in Anglesey should say I holiday in Anglesey , North Wales?

This has evolved into a deep debate because I said many people in England say ' I holiday in Wales' but people in Wales do not say ' I holiday in England'
I said this after explaining Wales is often seen as a county not a country, no complaint just an observation.

This caulkhead's off to Newport on Friday. That's Isle of Wight to you, not Wales!

Haven't been back for seven years.....can't wait but DH has got to have emergency dental treatment this morning.

What is it with men and holidays?

What a choice to make, holiday in Newport, Isle of White or Newport, Gwent, lol

Have a lovely time

No shoulds at all, anniebach. I was just explaining what I say and that I don't use the noun 'holiday' as a verb. Your usage is the first instance I have come across. I'm glad to know of the phenomenon. All part of my education and the evolution of language. So thank you for the information.

I daresay some people see Wales as a county. I don't and I haven't come across that before either. That's an observation too. It may have something to do with the fact that I'm married to a Welshman, but it may not. Another observation.

I used to be married to a Scot. I don't think that has anything to do with how I specify geographical places either. I look at maps a lot and always have. It was something my dad did a lot too. And I enjoyed geography at school.

Your most welcome Thatbag , But I did ask a question not say anyone ' should' say or do anything .

And I answered the question with "no shoulds about it" or something, didn't I? Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Greatnan , I have given your messages much thought, I can perhaps offer one explanation for your neighbour who was cross with you and you believe it was because you were English, I am not saying this is accurate but just trying to help you perhaps accept it was not against you as a person

There was great distress in Wales in the sixties caused by events at Capel Celyn, in North Wales, I myself protested up there with many others against this brutal destruction and the coldness the way villagers of Capel Celyn were treated . I can only imagine if I had a child or parent buried there I would have been distraught to be told ' well dig them up and take them somewhere else'

I am not going to discuss Capel Celyn or the very deep anger felt , it's over, an apology was given over forty years later , too late for the old people of that valley who had by then died.

Just a thought.

How does that justify being nasty to a perfectly innocent English family?
What you have described is exactly the kind of irrational hatred and prejudice that causes so much trouble throughout the world.
At least we can establish that there was nothing I did to merit the treatment we got.

I think a lot of villages have been flooded over the years because of reservoirs..I'm sure that one was flooded in Derbyshire because they used to say you could see the church spire when the water was low. Anniebach; I'm reading between the lines here and probably jumping to conclusions but I can't help but feel there is a lot of resentment on your part concerning things that my English ancestors have done over the years .

Ladybower reservoir in the Peak District covers two submerged villages, and a few buildings started to reappear in recent drought years.

No, I didn't say you did or didn't merit the treatment you claim to have received . I wasn't there . I was trying to help you come to some understanding of something which you have not moved on from in fifty years. I said I didn't know but offered a possibly explanation for your neighbour to help you let this bitterness go

I don't consider the anger felt at that time to be irrational, I would think if you were forced out of your home and told you could dig up your dead or leave them to be left beneath all that water you would be angry and it would certaintly not be irrational. You are still angry because you thought you were ignored.

and i have never spoken of or thought of hatred, it is an ugly word and an emotion I have never experienced

Tyneham in Dorset was very sad, but I've just googled it and it is now, in part, open to the public, although the residents were never allowed back.

I'm struggling to undertand why a young mum and her children would be treated badly because of a recent event that hurt local communities. In my experience, people become more philosophical and inclusive when they have faced disaster or distress, not hostile. I coud understand them explaining there was some ill-feeling about the flooding of the village, but reassuring them that it wasn't directed at them, who had nothing to do with it.

I've found in the past that it's more often first generation people living in communities that take umbrage with newcomers than people who's families have always lived there.

Tegan, I am speaking of 1966,your ancestors were surely not involved in that decade. No, I don't feel resentment, I do like most people feel a degree of anger when people of any nationality are not treated fairly . I think the anger felt over Capel Celyn was justified. They were right to question why they should be forced from their homes and their community scattered to benefit a town many miles away. I accept that there was an apology a few years ago and it's now long time past, I only mentioned it because Greatnan is still so disturbed and it was an attempt to help, misplaced help though

I think if someome hurt my child the way that Greatnan's daughter was I'd still be disturbed .

Mold is hardly in the heart of Wales anyway - it's only 12 miles or so from Chester. I can't believe its inhabitants were so deeply angry with the English over Capel Celyn that they took it out on any English passer-by, visitor or new resident as a matter of course!