feeling proud to be British

Liverpool Council took a private bill to parliment , they wanted to flood a valley in North Wales. 35 of the 36 Welsh MP's voted against but the bill was carried . Because it was a private bill no planning permission had to be sort by the Welsh authorities, no matter that Capel Celyn was of historical importance - a ring of stones were Quakers met before fleeing to America, plus it was one of the last fully Welsh speaking valleys in Wales. Because it was a private bill all authorities in Wales were powerless to defend the valley or the people. This caused a rise in the people who became Welsh Nationalists things became more bested following the flooding in 1965. There were many attempts to plant explosives at Lake Vernwy- the night out first child was born my husband was stuck miles away at Lake Vernwy because of a bomb threat 1969 also saw much anger when prince Charles entered Aberyswyth University to study the language for nine whole weeks, then we had the debacle of his investiture. It was at this time a ' Sons of Owain Glyndwr 'were active - Owain was the last true Prince of Wales. This was also the time when several holiday homes were burned .
Liverpool council apologised in 2005 for their actions in 1965,

So I do not consider this as historical in the same sense as the murder of The Prince of Wales, I lived this period and wonder how those who dismiss the flooding of that valley so lightly would react if Welsh PM's voted for and carried through a bill to demolish an area in England and the whole of England were powerless to do a thing . Was Wales angry? Yep,

I assume those who dismiss the feelings of the Welsh also dismiss the BNP and EDL, and never say that if you want to live in England then respect the English way of life and customs

No, I am no longer angry, just putting the facts to you . And hope some will give a thought as to how they would truly feel if it happened to a place they loved and was of historical importance to them

Greatnan has voiced her opinion of Wales by quoting Dylan Thomas, she is angry because she was hurt, no difference to anyone in Wales feeling angry surely

Anniebach your anger is tangible, and completely understandable. Many injustices have been carried out by politicians and large organisations, and an apology years later is no compensation.

But expressing this in response to Greatnan's experience of beng treated badly by a few individuals, and stepping up the way you post on this thread to overpower her comments seems rather unfair.

How about starting a different thread to discuss the political disasters that have damaged communities? There are so many, such as Thatcher and the mining communities, the destruction of the steelworks that have left Sheffeld communities bereft, the down grading of shipbuilding and shipping, and cutting through countryside and villages for airports and extra runways, as well as your example of the flooding of villages to create reservoirs across the UK.

.....or even a new thread about the treatment of dfferent communities by the likes of the Royal family. Completely agree with your comments about Charles and the investiture.

Who has dismissed the flooding of the valley lightly? I was not a member of Liverpool council I remember the tragedy of Aberfan and how very angry I was that the Coal Board tried to wriggle out of blame. I wasn't on the Coal Board either. I am not responsible for any of the bad things that have happened in Wales or anywhere in the world. I come from the class that worked hard and suffered and I feel affinity with others who are at the bottom of the pecking order, whatever their nationality. I have said that eventually I made good friends in Mold and they were just as disgusted as I was by the behaviour of those who behaved so badly towards us. Perhaps it would have been better if you had simply said the same. It was your insistence that I must have been someway to blame that made me so angry. I didn't do anything to antagonise my neighbours in Mold. Please let this drop - you are not doing yourself or Wales any favours.

I loathe the BNP and all other groups that seek to discriminate against anybody on the basis of their nationality.

Annie I most certainly do dismiss the EDL and BNP but would never dismiss the feelings of the Welsh people.

I'm confused as to how you can bring those two organisations into this discussion.

Someone said earlier that Mold is not the centre of Wales - this is geographically true but it's at the centre of 'Welsh' Wales and there used to be a lot of anti-English sentiment - I've been on the receiving end of it!

How can Mold be at the centre of 'Welsh' Wales? Only 13% of its population speak or understand Welsh, compared with the North coast counties where the percentage can be over 50%.

I don't understand your logic, Riverwalk.

Should have said 'Only 13% of the population of Flintshire...etc.

Anna when I said centre of 'Welsh' Wales again I wasn't referring to geographical centre just that it's very Welsh and the majority of people seemed to speak their language.

Indeed I had some friends whose grandparents knew only Welsh.

From where do did you obtain your very precise statistics?

Yes, I know you weren't referring to the geographical situation of Mold. I'm just saying that many other Welsh counties have a far higher percentage of Welsh speakers than Flintshire, so I don't see how it can be either the heart of Wales or the centre of 'Welsh' Wales.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Welsh_principal_areas_by_percentage_Welsh_language

There are of course other sources of similar information

http://www.flintshire.gov.uk/wps/portal/english/services?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/Web+Content/Flintshire/English/Services/100003/Welsh+language

I am not sure that a country can be called bi-lingual when such a small percentage of the population speak the second language.

Anna if you've been to Mold and know its history you'll know what I mean

It's very Welsh!

My name is Ana and I have been to Mold. I didn't hear anyone speak Welsh....perhaps they didn't realise I was English!

Try Manchester for multi-lingualism (is that a word?) Over 200 different languages spoken round here, it was announced a couple of weeks ago. It's a wonderful cosmopolitan mix, most notably around the university area and along the Oxford Road/Wilmslow Road corridor leading south out of the city centre. White English-speaking (as a first language) people are proportionally fewer amongst the population in that part of Manchester, and they live side by side in harmony for most of the time.

We Lancastrians don't bear grudges against whole nations! Just individuals!

There was mention of the difficulties during the seventies, I explained the causes of the difficulties.

Riverwalk, I was not for one moment suggesting anyone would support those organisations.

Greatnan, perhaps it would have been better if you had kept your condemnation for the few people who upset you and not the whole country , as you did with your Dylan Thomas quote

Thank you for your kind words on Aberfan, I was born there, went to that school and was there that day.

I was quite happy to leave this drop, you were keen to continue

Hwyl fawr, Annie.

iechyd da Greatnan

ac yr un peth i chi
(That's my lot!)
And Wales is still a very beautiful country.

So, Dylan Thomas can say it but not someone else. Gotcha

No thatbag, you have totally not understood my reference to Dylan Thomas

IT
_______

Please?

How bizarre that this thread has been taken over completely by a discussion or, perhaps more accurately, argument about Wales. It just goes to show that "British" is a pretty spurious identity.

Quite so, absent. When asked my nationality in France (I am sometimes taken to be Scandanavian) I reply 'English'. I am afraid I have to say that all the French people I have known refer simply to Angleterre and Anglais - I don't think they understand the difference between Great Britain, the United Kingdom, or the British Isles (nor do they care!) But then, how many British people could explain it? I have sometimes talked about Pay de Galles and Ecosse and if they are followers of soccer or rugby they will know the names. I suppose that just shows that French education is rather limited. Perhaps the constituent countries of the UK are well known in other parts of the world.
The odd thing is that most forms do not allow me to use an adjective to describe my nationality - the drop down lists of nationalities gives me only UK, not 'British' - you can't say 'I am UK' can you?

I would be happy to say simply that I am European but official forms demand more detail.

Anniebach I remember the horror of those scenes It was an appalling disaster. (((hugs)))

Sorry, anniebach, if I've misunderstood your reference to DT. I think I understood greatnan's quotation though, and I think understood what DT meant. I don't really think he was being dismissive of all Welsh people, and I don't think greatnan was either. So I was left wondering why you minded it, especially as it was a quote from a man who, I think, understood very well "the Welsh character" – it shows in his writing (I'm particularly thinking of Under Milk Wood right now). Please notice that I have used quotation marks round the phrase "Welsh character", meaning that I know there is not only one kind of Welsh character. As with other nationalities, there are probably certain 'identifiers of Welshness' which will be used in a humourous, teasing, or exasperated way depending on the circumstances in which they're being used. That is my understanding of greatnan's DT quote – i.e. harmless.