Greenpeace has lost its moral compass

But the problem thatbags is that it is not an either/or decision. The adverse health effects are the result of politico/economic problems that will not go away if people eat 'golden' rice.

We are not talking about populations suffering from this deficiency from top to bottom of society because of an inherent inability to get the required nutrient because foods containing it will not grow in the area, or are quickly destroyed for climatic or geological reasons. We are talking about poor people being unable to afford the local food that contains Vitamin A because it is too expensive. If they plant the golden rice may they find themselves in even deeper poverty with worse malnutrition because it needs a lot of fertiliser or pesticides or other special treatments that require them to borrow money upfront at extortionate rates. Even if they grow it will they be able to afford to eat it? Or will it sell at a premium price that is again beyond their means.

These problems are rarely solved by simple quick fix solutions. Indeed if there are simple quick fix solutions they are usually catastrophically wrong. The solution to this vitamin deficiency lies in the geo/politico/economic reasons that cause it.

I'd eat food that carried a low risk of adverse health effects if the alternative was going blind or staying hungry.

Anyway, lots of people in the rich West think plenty of the foods we eat are not safe, or are bad for health.

"What may be acceptable for drugs is not acceptable in food, where huge populations would consume the GM food products, who are in good health and would not want to risk their health in order to consume new food products"

Golden rice is designed for people who are not in good health.

The other thing Monsanto seem to be involved in is Geo-engineering, the global operation to help control climate change. The Chemtrails we can see in our skies are toxic trails left by planes and contain high levels of heavy metals. Weather manipulation through contrail formation … is in place and fully operational.

Monsanto has announced acquisition of the Climate Corporation, a climate data research company.

Exactly, Flickety. Faye, your link about the cowboys is a precursor of mine about the landgrab. But it shows that it is not just in India, but most of the far East and much of Africa and South America, too.

I have been away for nearly a week and fully confess that the number of posts since my last contribution are too many to read all of them in detail so I may be repeating what has already been said. I think a lot of my concerns are about unintended consequences - like people downsizing under the bedroom tax regulations ending up paying higher rents for smaller properties.

In the 1960s/70s (I think) we had the 'Green Revolution' when rice cultivars were introduced into India that increased yields and were intended to end the regular famines that devastated the country. It was hoped that increased yields would bring increased incomes to impoverished farmers and enable them to get out of poverty.

What actually happened is that the cost of the seed and the fertiliser and insecticides/pesticides needed to get the increased yields meant poor farmers had to borrow more because fertilisers etc were needed before the crop was harvested and when yields went up, prices went down and many ended up not richer but poorer and tied, even more, tightly to exploititive land owners and loan sharks. This is one of the concerns with the introduction of GMs, what will be the unintended consequences of introducing them.

Selective breeding within species, or across species that cross breed in the wild is one thing, forcing the genes of one species into another is something else entirely and the processes that are undertaken to do this can make it easier for genes to start moving across species in a way that has never happened before and we can not know what good or bad effects this will have. The problem of allergens moving from species to species must be a concern.

The difference between food and drugs, is that we know that most drugs have disadvantageous side effects of some kind, some very serious, some less so, but with drugs we balance the disadvantages against the advantages on a case by case basis. I have known people with very serious illnesses take calculated risks with the serious side effects of drugs because of the benefits they get from them. When people take dangerous drugs they are constantly monitored by their medical advisors. When these controls do not work we can have terrible events like those
associated with thalidomide.

What may be acceptable for drugs is not acceptable in food, where huge populations would consume the GM food products, who are in good health and would not want to risk their health in order to consume new food products

www.grain.org/go/landgrab

You would be amazed at who is growing what where and who is being turfed off their land so big companies can grow it. China is targeting Russia, Burma, Laos, Mozambique, the Philippines, etc., and many middle East countries are also targeting Burma and China to grow rice.
Just yesterday I received information through the post from FOE about landgrab. The map on their website is from Grain. Most of the far East is both a source and a target of landgrab, yet 10% of the population is undernourished. Not just deficient in vitamin A, but in most vitamins and minerals. Governments and companies are riding roughshod over communities who have been using and living on the land for generations. Many of the communities are not consulted, let alone compensated for having their land and livelihoods destroyed.

India's Rice India's rice economy has been trampled on. America should hang it's head in shame and Monsanto are the cowboys, riding roughshod over the poor rice farmers.

Baggy in the link I previously posted under Seeds of Suicide it says Monsanto now controls 95 percent of the Indian cotton market through its GMOs. Here is another link calling Monsanto the Life Lord of our Planet, and also mentions Monsanto controls 95 percent of India's cotton seed. Suicides cause unbearable hardships for the wives and children left behind.

Sorry about all the links.

nice one Absent .. sadly you're probably correct.

I think the genie – gene – is already out of the bottle.

Faye what really bothers me is that rice belongs to the most important plant family on the planet - the grasses. These are at the bottom of so mamy food chains. If, by messing with their genome, scientists inadvertently make them susceptible to diseases of other plants (whose genes they incorporate into their cell nucleus) then the very future of food production is threatened.
We do not know enough about how a transplanted gene acts within a new organism. What it 'turns on' or 'turns off'. A lot more research needs to be carried out before unleashing something which cannot be undone.

Scientists are genetically modifying rice for several purposes including making rice resistant to herbicides, diseases, and pests, increasing nutritional value, eliminating rice allergies, producing human blood protein, increasing yield; improving tolerance to drought and salinity; and enhancing nitrogen use efficiency.
In 2000, the first two GM rice varieties both with herbicide-resistance, called LLRice60 and LLRice62, were approved in the United States. Later, these and other types of herbicide-resistant GM rice were approved in Canada, Australia, Mexico, and Colombia. However, none of these approvals resulted in commercialization.[3] Reuters reported in 2009 that China had granted biosafety approval to GM rice with pest resistance,[4] but it hasn't been commercialized either. As of December 2012 GM rice had not yet become widely available for production or consumption.[5] A 2013 article calculated that the annual global value of future developments of genetically engineered rice to be US$64 billion. They argued that since rice is a staple crop for a large number of very poor people in the world, this has enormous potential for alleviating hunger, malnutrition and poverty.[6]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_rice

Which was agreeing with the fact that people shouldn't be trampled on.

India is not growing many GM crops. They are doing similar things to what's happening here – small and limited trials.

Also, the suppiers of the golden rice seed do not charge or sue. Syngenta has handed over intellectual property rights to golden rice to non-profit organisations including the International Rice Research Institute

And here's some old news about Syngenta, taken from the link at the bottom.
And the technology's inventors compelled the owners of the patent, a biotechnology company called Syngenta, to allow poor farmers around the world free access to the new variety as long as they earn less than $10,000 a year — ostensibly eliminating fears about industrialized agriculture that have plagued other GMO crops like Monsanto's Bt Cotton.

“All the normal arguments don't apply here,” said Dubock. “This is a gift from the inventors.”

Here in India, however, farmer advocates and environmental activists view that gift as a Trojan Horse.

“They are using the humanitarian window to actually push for GM

www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/india/111122/rice-20-golden-rice-genetically-modified-organisms-vitamin-A

No you did n' t. You made some comment about whether farmers ars being forced to grow it.

Because Monsanto sue them, even if they haven't bought seeds from Monsanto but Monsanto's seeds blow onto the farmer's land. They call it Patent Infringement.

jings, re your post of 20:48:30 – I agreed with that at 13:15:07. So you can tone down the grump, if you please.

The Basmati rice genome may be patented in America, but not in Indian law.

Monsanto tried to patent the Basmati rice genome but the Indian government opposed that and basically told them to fuck off. Basmati rice was developed in India and belongs to India is that government's stance. Good for them.

Monsanto removed the "terminator gene" (which prevented people from being able to grow from a sample of the seed from their own crop).

Some at least of the price rise is due to India's current astronomical economic development. The price of everything is going up a lot.

faye, why can't rice farmers save some seed from their crop and sow that? Isn't that an option if they haven't bought GM seed? And if not, why not?

And, of course they are not being forced to grow it. I just meant that their concerns should be taken into consideration.

Bags I just knew you would quibble over golden rice being completely different. I think gm crops are different, or what is the fuss all about.

Don't bother to answer that, and definitely not with another mind numbing link.

Oh there is more to come Aka.

Faye it just gets worse.

The price of seed in India has jumped 8,000 per cent. I would very much know how that is helping to feed starving children in India - baggy JessM?