Greenpeace has lost its moral compass

Nightowl, you wrote that while I was still typing.
That information is also in Stephen Walsh's Plant Based Nutrition and Health.
J08, you can lead a horse to water, etc. It's up to the parents in those countries, as it is here, to make sure their children eat a varied diet, providing it is available. While Monsanto and Syngenta are playing about with gmos children are starving, not just going blind.

It makes much more sense for the western countries to help them grow a variety of foods rather than a monoculture which even if it is a gmo can still be wiped out.

Sorry, thatbags but that Doctor uk link shows how ridiculous your information is.
It gives veganism as a risk factor for vitamin A deficiency, when it's well known that carrots and sweet potatoes are the best sources.
The good thing about vegetable sources of caroteinoid is that they do not have any adverse effects on bone health, whereas having vitamin A from liver in the form of retinol can reduce bone density of calcium.

We are all told in this country that we need to eat a varied diet. Why does that not hold true in countries where golden rice is tried?
If you eat a carrot or some sweet potato or yam, as well as the rice you normally eat, you get many more nutrients other than the vitamin A which is added to the rice.

Personally I would rather all these comapnies researched something like permaculture, so the countries where children are lacking in nutrients can grow a variety of plants to feed their own children. That's why I support companies like Practical Action rather than Syngenta.

Yes, but can they grow those vegetables in the countries this pertains to? And would the population be willing to change their lo ng established eating habits?

A few quotes from the link, and from people inside the countries with problems of malnutrition, and without a different agenda:

According to Daycha Siripatra of the Alternative Agriculture Network in Thailand and the director of Technology for Rural and Ecological Enrichment, vitamin A deficiency will not be solved by golden rice technology since it does not address the key to the problem of poverty, which is landlessness. "They're cheating us. If the poor had land, they would have better diets. The poor don't need vitamin A. They need vitamin L, that's Vitamin Land. And they need Vitamin M, that's Vitamin Money. Malnutrition is because of poverty, not [a lack of] technology."

Dr. Romy Quijano, a medical doctor who heads the Philippine Action Network, also believes that the sensible approach to preventing vitamin A deficiency is to see that the vulnerable sectors of the population are empowered enough to access natural sources of vitamin A. "Effective nutrition education is much better than adding yet another source of vitamin A which most likely will not be equitably distributed anyway; improving livelihood; providing better health care system; addressing malnutrition, communicable diseases and other illnesses that make children more vulnerable to vitamin A deficiency.

According to Dr. Samson Tsou of the Asian Vegetable Research and Development Center (AVRDC), countries with vegetable consumption of more than 200 grams of vegetables per day do not have vitamin A deficiency as a major problem. Although animal sources are expensive, inexpensive plant food sources are widely available. It only takes two tablespoonfuls of yellow sweet potatoes, half a cup of dark green leafy vegetables or two-thirds of a medium-sized mango in a day to meet the vitamin A requirement of a pre-school child. This way, not only is the vitamin A requirement being addressed, but a whole range of other micronutrients as well.

I agree with Patrick Moore.

I know they are unsure now whether iron is available to us from green veg, but they know we can get the vit A.

We get vit A from carrots and they don't contain fat. We get it from any yellow/Orange veg. So why not from golden rice.

Pertinent point, aka.

The humanitarian credentials you question, faye, are the organisations that are funding the effort to solve an illness and death problem in developing countries.

I found this part raised a whole new question about absorption of Vit A.

'Whether the beta-carotene contained in golden rice will be bioavailable is yet another question. Dietary fat is needed for it to be absorbed by the body. Unfortunately dietary fat is also limited in rice-eating countries and in fact is being looked at as one possible "hidden" causes of vitamin A deficiency itself'

Here's the info from the horse's mouth, The Golden Rice Humanitarian Project.

I accept the concerns people are expressing, and I agree that those concerns need to be addressed, and laws made which prevent excessive profiteering and similar problems. However, there is another problem that needs to be addressed too – preventing the blindness and the deaths of children because of vitamin deficiency.

Please see my post of 10:50:32, jings, which is also not a link and which explains the problem the golden rice project is trying to solve in the sort of way that human beings have always tried to solve problems: with humanity and care for the less fortunate.

Good post Nightowl. I found this paragraph under Tangled Up In Patents interesting, "A "Humanitarian Board" has been established "to help make the right decisions" in any technology transfer agreement pertaining to golden rice. But the ‘humanitarian’ credentials of board members and their ability to judge the appropriate use of golden rice amongst resource-poor farmers are extremely questionnable. They include the Rockefeller Foundation (New York), Zeneca Agrochemicals, the World Bank (Washington), IRRI (the Philippines) and the inventors themselves."

I have read articles about the The World Bank causing problems in third world countries before. and Poverty in Africa link was interesting.

Thank you for the info Aka. It is nice to have an explanation that is not simply a link.

I do NOT believe gm foods in general will be harmful to humans.

Have they finished trialling golden rice?

They need to be sure the vit A is available to humans in that form. And that it won't affect other crops in the area it is grown in, or at least weigh up the advantages against the disadvantages.

Genuine trials should not be interfered with.

J0 the debate is around two main issues. The first seems to be that multinationals have hijacked products such as Golden Rice and rather the making it available to the poor of the planet are delaying introduction through seeking patents for 'their genes' (can anyone own a gene?) and profiteering. This will come as no surprise as its a similar position with drug companies and life saving vaccines etc..

The second issue is around the safety of GM crops as evidence is mounting that they may cause organ damage in laboratory animals, increase the need for stronger pesticides due to the emergence of 'super weeds' etc.

There are other issues but that's it in a nutshell.

Article about VitA deficiency problems

jings, vitamin A deficiency remains a serious problem in many developing countries. Golden rice is seen by its supporters as a way of resolving that problem. They call it "food fortification". You could think of it as an alternative to taking a vitamin supplement – something poor people won't be able to afford in addition to paying for food.

Nightowl that says it all. A well written and balanced article. Thank you.

grumpa I think Faye has shown that it is Patrick Moore who lack morals as indicated by his falsification of his credentials.

Curiouser and curiouser Faye. There's talking up one's CV and then there's lying.

The word 'charlatan' springs to mind.

j08 I know you asked for a simple explanation and not a link but this is a link to a long but comprehensive article which I think explains the objections well. Sorry if it's a link that has been posted already.

www.grain.org/article/entries/10-grains-of-delusion-golden-rice-seen-from-the-ground

I think Aka explained the difference between GM and selective breeding/ natural mutations very well in her post on Tuesday 8th at 23.31.

Interestingly, this link also makes reference to the fact that low zinc levels reduce the absorption of vitamin A, which may support Nfk's post on Tuesday 8th at 10.12

Poor children (and adults) in the philippines are suffering from deficiencies in most micronutrients, not just vitamin A.

Patrick Moore claims he is a founder/co founder of Greenpeace. Here is a copy of his application letter written in 1971. Moral compass indeed.

Greenpeace would say that about him, wouldn't they? The moral compasses here just about match Dacre versus Campbell.

I wish someone on here could set out the bio facts behind golden rice. Just why do Greenpeace oppose it being grown?

Please not a link to a hard to follow article. Could someone just tell me.

Preferably thatbags.

Faye thank you for that interesting and illuminating post. It's sad when once respected individuals lose their 'moral compass' and sell out to the highest bidder.