I think we need a Christmas CBA thread too

But there are lots of middle ways aren't there? We've never done big presents - dd was bought bicycle when it was the right time, not for a present. I will buy spontaneous presents in a I saw this and thought of you' kind of thing - but I like to give small gifts at Christmas as well. There are some things we do at Christmas that are just cheery and fun and wouldn't work at another time - eg I do a mulled wine and minced pie party for the road I live in. But it's not the only time we get together - it's just another nice excuse to have a laugh, a gossip and invite new neighbours in to meet everyone. Christmas can be a sort of coat hanger

I am sure DH and I wouldn't bother if it wasn't for the kids and his mother, whose Alzheimer's means that she will unwrap and wrap the same presents all day as if it was the first time...it is wonderful to see the joy in her eyes and in those of her great grandchildren.

I make a token effort for the children, but I don't really like Christmas decorations - I just enjoy being with my family and friends. Christmas is just a commercial bonanza, and I would rather be able to give gifts when I feel like it, instead of this big present-buying spree in December.

I don't bother decorating or having a tree anymore. Cards are enough decoration. As I spend Christmas with one daughter and then New Year with the other one, it seems a waste of time.

I sometimes feel that I'm 'doing' Christmas because I feel I have to and not for the joy of it. December has always been a rather depressing month for me, maybe going way back 67 years to the three weeks I spent in hospital with pneumonia without my family round me. That has made me permanently anxious about Christmas, with a fear of being alone. Now, although I have always sent stacks of cards to old friends, it has become ridiculously expensive. E-cards are cheerful, but you can't prop them up on the mantelpiece!

BAnanas has said it all. But we need the dancing round the bonfire bit to keep our spirits up to get through jan and February. There are masses of opportunities to lift the spirits and be generous to those who do not and have not and cannot have the means to celebrate. People have always had bad taste and love the tat. There's nothing that can be done except ban imports. I once took my family to a Muslim country when I felt that the commercial aspect was overwhelming. Jordanians can do plastic tat on an Olympic scale.

I'm with BAnans.

I can beat that Lilygran out local garden centre has an upsidedown Christmas tree for goodness sake. Decorated too. Madness.

I do love Christmas and try to find more original gifts and not expensive for my DGC. I set a low limit and do the best I can for this.

I felt so sorry for my youngest DS and his girlfriend the other year (no longer together) They made beautiful personalised cookies for the nieces and nephews - my middle DS poo pooed the idea and sarcastically bought them a book on cookie making the next year. The girlfriend knitted gifts for the adults. I was so proud of them. My youngest DD always finds lovely personal gift for the family, be it from charity shops or just making things. She is wonderful..

I think some of the thoughts of some posters are actually about matters of taste (saw a black Christmas tree the other day. And you can get pink as well) and others more serious. I wish we didn't have this month of spending frenzy. It can't be good for us even if we can well afford it. I object to having to buy a tree etc so early. When my DS were young, we used to get the tree at the earliest on December 23rd, preferably Christmas Eve but nowadays they've sold out by the week before.

It's all very nice but it is starting earlier and earlier. There were Christmas cards in the shops here in August. My DH said to me last night 'is it my imagination or is Christmas beginning earlier each year'. So it's not just me then.

I had a lovely stroll along the Sth bank in London yesterday. The carousel and a stalls selling Christmas bits, food and drink was family friendly and had a happy atmosphere. (I know it is ALL commercial!)

I think it is the encouragement to excess that is distasteful. The adverts and 'idealisation' of what Christmas day 'should be' create more unhappiness than not!

I see both sides of the argument here, I like the original meaning of Christmas, carols and The Nativity, it reminds me of how important that was when I was growing up so it's probably nostalgia kicking in. Listening to infant classes singing "away in a manger" does make me go all misty eyed. Pantos remind me of when our children were young and we always had a trip to Richmond Theatre to see the annual pantomime, so all you have said PRINTMISS does resonate with me.

Having said all that, for anyone who is alone, bereaved, broke, separated from their loved ones, there can't be a worse time than Christmas. I concede with Bags, it was feast that was nicked, the Winter Solstice was a big festival with the Celts, pre Christ, I believe...? I hate the over the top spending fest that it has become getting worse year on year, although of course it has to be said that the retail sector have no choice but to big it up, but does it have to start early September? I hate the way some buy into the whole going broke and paying off the whole thing a year later. All the time and effort and money that goes into buying, what can amount to a great pile of rubbish! My husband moans continually about it, a hang over from his working life when he was of the opinion that businesses just ground to a halt in mid December and then only get going again after the New Year which he found frustrating.

It's just the excess really I wish we could turn the clock back, but many younger people wouldn't want that, they, like all generations, are of their time and their time is driven by a "spend, spend, spend" mentality they are locked in! Just look at them wandering about glued to their phones, which have to be up dated frequently. We have an Apple store in our local mall, anyone else seen the queues generated when they launch a new product? They are enslaved well and truly and Christmas is just an extension of all that.

My two GDs are chief decorators at our house and enjoy advising Granny where various bits and pieces should be. The end result is anything but tickety boo but they have a fun making things that didn't cost much.

Thankfully where I live, no one has started this trend of lighting up their houses and gardens. I keep getting this image of the manger festooned with LED lights and a plastic Santa climbing up the roof!

I can't understand why people spend obscene amounts of money for one day, some even willing to go into debt. I feel the same about large showy weddings, again, just for one day.

In common with many people, I deplore the needless extravagance that is encouraged at this time of year. My pet peeve is the expensive TV adverts which depict an aspirational Christmas that can apparently only be bought.

However, Christmas is a very special time for me even though I am not a practising Christian. As a hard up single parent, I would scrimp and save for months so we could have a modest Christmas which involved lots of baking, home made decorations and presents. The day itself always started badly, as the DC hoped to get a phone call from their father, which never came. After a few tears, we would get ourselves together and enjoy the day.

It remains very precious to me, as both my DC live far away, but we make the effort to be reunited at some point in the holiday. They both have partners and I have one DGS, and a baby on the way, but they all love Christmas and the chance we have to be together - maybe the only time in the year. They make me laugh when they come home as they want/expect all the things they remember from their childhood Christmases and woe betide me if I try to change anything. So it's meat pie on Christmas Eve and so on.

I sort of feel the wheel has come full circle as now I am a not very well off pensioner with not a lot to spend on Christmas so all those years of doing Christmas on a shoestring have stood me in good stead.

Here's Kirstie showing you how, MiceElf.

I like your comment about the love and goodwill accompanying the present.

Myself your post could have been written by me - except you've probably made a much better job of it than I would have done.

Mice, I'm sure that Blue Peter made a natural wreath many years ago, using things from the garden and a wire coat hanger shaped into a circle. My attempt was a complete failure. I wonder how many other mums were made to feel inferior by Blue Peter!

Thatbags, I'm with you. As a practising Christian I hate the the business takeover that you describe. This season of Advent is a time for penance, waiting and preparation. Many of us don't give a fig about the mythology of Christmas but it does focus the mind on the themes of homelessness, being a refugee, being a young mother possibly disbelieved about her story and above all about poverty. I'm not a bah humbug killjoy and I think giving presents is lovely. It would be a sad world if we all said 'Oh we're just giving them something and they give us something'. It's the goodwill and tangible love that accompanies the present giving that is the point.

And I agree about plastic wreaths. Perhaps some creative person could post a guide to making a proper natural wreath - especially for townies who live some distance from fir cones and ivy?

And if anybody is thinking that I am a sanctimonious twit - go ahead. I don't care.

I am with you Thatbags, Christmas has become a retail festival.
I always thought it was a Christian festival. Too much excess, and also too much pressure on everyone to spend spend spend.
Bah Humbug.

Bags it was probably sold at the 'German ' market. I saw them there. And don't forget you've one over your head in the group photo!

I only disagree with your point of view because it's not true, printmiss, though I've no objection to your believing otherwise. There was a midwinter festival long before the early christians purloined it for their own use.

And this difference of belief does not mean that my house isn't full of goodwill. It just means that I find all the overthetop xmas commercialism distasteful.

But I find all overthetop tat commercialism distasteful too. It's not confined to xmas. Seems that tat business invades every month nowadays. Meanwhile the politicians keep talking about austerity. Bullshit from start to finish.

I'm not saying christmas is bullshit. Not at all.

I, for one do not disagree with you Printmiss .
[hug]

Well, I love this time of year. We only do presents for close family, but we plan to do Christmassy things together, like Carol Concerts and the Panto. In our house it is the season of goodwill, and whilst not practicing Christians, the story of Christmas is what the season is all about. I imagine a great many of you will disagree with that, because we seem to have lost the reason we celebrate.

baubles, it was an oversized wreath made of plastic pine and plastic oversized berries that made me roll my eyes. False 'natural' is possibly a better description.

I suppose what irritates me is the commercialistic scramble and the sheepish following of the Tat Crowd that I find ridiculous, and slightly shaming to tell the truth – makes me slightly ashamed of humanity.

Presents for kids and other loved ones, fine. A midwinter solstice celebratory meal, fine.

OTT nonsense, yuck.

I don't even send cards! Well, just a couple to older people that I don't see.
Definitely CBA!!!

I've done all that for years, now it's the turn of dd and ds.

Just found out that I will be at home, alone on the day and I'm delighted!