Made in China

Actually thinking about it .... there are too many young people in schools today who do not value the free education they are receiving.

It's was hard to assess people's ability to read and write well. Apart from Christmas cards or post cards I didn't often get the opportunity to see their standard of writing, but now we have social media networks, like GN and FB I'm often dismayed at people's poor spelling, grammar, etc.
Many do not even realise they're making such mistakes. I understand the point Granjura is trying to make.

My mum "passed" for grammar school but her parents could not afford to send her. She worked as a bus conductress and later in a textile mill. She was very articulate and well read. My sisters in law were both menders in a mill and were asked to take work at home after retiring ,by two of the surviving mills, due to a lack of skilled workers.

I am sure there was no intention to sound patronising but I really question this "rich man in his castle, poor man at his gate" Utopian idyll you seem to be describing, granjura. In my childhood in Scotland I knew many people whose formal education may not have gone beyond the age of 14 but who were extremely intelligent, knowledgeable, clever, wise people whose economic circumstances meant that higher or further educaton was not an option. "Poor academic skills" were not a factor in their lives however even if they were weavers/darners/loom operators in the local woollen and tweed mills. This also certainly did not mean they did not value education, indeed many of them scrimped and saved and did without to enable their children to be the first generation to go to university. Scotland has a reputation (like Wales) for valuing education, but I do not believe for a moment this was unique. I think janeainsworth has it spot on when she says "the education of women has been shown to be the single most important factor in a country's progress. " Intelligent women raise intelligent children - read to them and encourage them in their intellectual development. The shoemaker in my small Scottish Borders town was one of the most intellectual men you could meet - he would discuss the classics, politics, philosophy whatever when you went to collect shoes from being mended despite having left school at 14. Incidentally, his son was a PhD.

Granjura I feel saddened that as recently as the late 20th Century women should value their education so slightly. I have no reason to doubt POGS' description of factory work and I cannot see the slightly romantic picture that you portray, of workers happy in their ignorance and willingly exploited.

My grandmother left school in 1899 at the age of 12 and went to work in the cotton mills of Salford.
But she made my mother learn to play the piano and said she could do any job she liked, as long as she got a teaching certificate first.

The education of women has been shown to be the single most important factor in a country's progress, both economically and in health terms. This is quite apart from the individual benefits to women themselves.

The 1944 Education Act liberated our generation, but as a country I think we have been too slow to recognise that the old manufacturing industries, mainly because of labour costs, are not viable, and too reluctant to develop new ones.

Ooops Somerset, sorry.

POGS it must have been so hard, coming from Devon to industrial Leics.
The Ladies I got to know, as one of my best friend is their neighbour, were all Leicester born and bred, from the same area- and knew each other since they were kids- so the camaraderie was very close- making it even harder for an 'outsider'- a sort of informal 'closed shop'. But they were, and still are, very proud of their job- and laughed at their poor academic skills, and how it was fairly non-consequential in their lives. I used to take them on trips regularly, and we shared so much, humour, and a great interest for flowers, gardens and history.

My OH sits in bed every morning going on and on about how China is going to take over the world. Now he may of course be right, I cannot be certain; but what I am sure of is that I would rather listen to some music in the mornings than this particular rant which I can quote word for word now!

Granjura

My mother was one of the ladies you speak of. She worked at Kemptons Leicester , next door to Corahs and it was pretty much as you describe. Unlike the ladies you spoke to she had no love of working there. There were other problems for us as a family at the time as we had moved to Leicester from Somerset and we all found the bigger city pretty unfriendly. We had come from an environment where people said hello or good morning and you received a courteous reply. So I accept not everyone would maybe feel an outsider and yes probably did find working there enjoyable. I am pleased for the women you have met.

The factory environment and 'piece work' is not easy and there is a lot of competitiveness. When you earn more for one job than another, women would almost come to blows to get the higher paid line. There was no time for chatting if you were on piece work and that still applies today in the factory environment.

Places like Corah lost out because of cheaper wages and production costs from abroad. The machinery was so technical that men were laid off as they were surplus to requirement. The biggest factor for them was M&S buying from abroad as you quite rightly said. The boot and shoe industry suffered the same demise. So many factories were shut down in just a few years and the unskilled workforce now get employed in the warehouse and logistics industry that took their place. Even in these jobs you need to have a decent grasp educationally and I feel saddened when I hear employers say our children are lacking basic skills and literacy.

As I mentioned in my earlier post China is a massive problem but I agree with others eastern Europe is quite possibly the area to watch out for.

I don't know all the facts but I think the decision to discontinue proper apprenticeships, many of which were available for those who were not academic but did give apprentices a sense of achievement once they had served their time with a recognised qualification. That takes us back though to the fact that there were employers offering jobs for skilled employees.

What I am hearing now is that there are courses offering very basic skills as opposed to a thorough apprenticeship which could take 4 years to complete.

Expressed myself very badly- and I apologise. Yes, it did matter ... but having talked to a lot of them, all retired now- they didn't seem to mind at all, and joked it off. They were really proud of their job, and loved working in the textile mills. Same for many boys who worked in the mining and other industries. It 'didn't' matter' in as much as, even without being able to read or write very well- they were able to get good jobs and sustain themselves and their families- and as said, for many be proud and enjoy said jobs. Which is just not possible nowadays- and the reason perhaps we have so many unable to find jobs, as you just can't find any jobs these days without the ability to do both, and qualifications- certainly few jobs they could get great pride from. I am sure many would have benefited hugely from being able to read books- but talking to them it was not paramount to them, they assured me. And it is not up to me to decide for them what did, or didn't matter to them- even if it surprised me very much.

My son visits China once a month and says that they are complaining about competition from Eastern Europe, who don't yet have the massive infrastructure and shipping systems but can undercut China via workers' wages and work ethic. A couple of Chinese businessmen my son meets regularly maintain that the growing view is that whilst China might be on the rise to becoming a superpower, Eastern Europe and Russia could overtake them in no time. Chinese business organisations are rushing to acquire premises and businesses in Europe before Eastern Europeans get there first.

Another thought (not going off at a tangent) but DD "buys" for a well known UK company and regelarly travels to China and Hong Kong on buying/design tripsss. She tells me that China no longer undercuts Europe in the area of production costs - that has been taken over by Eastern European workers.

All sounds a bit feudal antedeluvian to me.

And also revisits the argument as to the "point" of education whether for girls or all- should there be one? Is it not an end in itself

Granjura you said:
"I know many older ex 'textile' girls, now retired, who could not read or write effectively, but it did not matter. They went straight into textile jobs at 15, loved it and very proud of their jobs, and their poor academic skills were not noticed, nor a problem. Same for many industries all over the Midlands and the North."

I am sorry but I cannot let this pass
It didn't matter that these women couldn't read and write properly? In the 20th century?
Can you be serious?

Same here Glammanana. I could easily have wallpapered and used LA fabrics throughout the house. After LA died, the standard and quality was obviously cheaper but the prices didn't reflect that.

A large LA store on one of Glasgow's main shopping streets, a shop which was always very busy, eventually closed down as people realised this was now the case.

Now Mr C has changed the benefits system I think a lot of youngsters in particular will be taking jobs they previously would have turned their noses up at. At least I think that's the theory.

I do try to buy British, but it's very hard. We keep being told manufacturing is on the up, but in what? It isn't the stuff I buy.

I wonder what will happen when China has all the manufacturing, has used up African good will and their workers are earning better wages - and the west has no money to buy the stuff. Perhaps production will all revert to us and the Chinese will be complaining of the quality of European goods!

There was a very interesting t.v prog about two years ago. It followed a northern factory owner who had a factory in England and another in China. The reason behind the prog was to show which factory competed better for him as he was finding that the Chinese factory and the Chinese workers were starting to want more cash being spent on them.

Chinese workers are actually getting together and I think the natural progression of things will see them demand, quite rightly so, higher wages. You saw this in action during the prog. Not might I add with his workers but in China in general. The English factory struggled to get staff and trainee workers. They did not turn up for work, received more money living on benefits or simply could not hack doing 'piece work,. Two of the English supervisors went to China to meet their fellow workers. By the time they left they were in tears and vowed never to complain about our standards of working again. It is so sad to see women and men living in such dire circumstances, away from their families but knowing they were better off than somebody else.

Now I don't want you to think badly about the employer as he was a decent man and paid the going rates in both factories. The cost of higher wages, the cost of importing back to England however made him decide to return to making cushions etc. back to England. His Chinese staff presumably lost their jobs and I felt so sorry that the little they had was going to be probably worse for them.

I hate buying so much stuff from abroad, I have noticed a lot from Roumania, China, Turkey etc. but I have to admit I like buying school uniform and children's clothing so cheaply. Yes there is a bad working ethos and I most certainly do not defend that, but if stuff is not made here any more then all we can hope for is the other nations eventually catch up with our cost of living. I think hell might freeze over sooner but it does look like there is a start in that direction with our manufacturing figures looking up, albeit a little. The onus will be put back to our workers to take the jobs and to be honest I wonder if we had the people willing to do it . That's another question for another day as we each have our own thoughts probably on that one.

Well said nightowl, I do try to avoid products made in China and would willingly pay more for quality garments made in the UK. We had clothing factories on the outskirts of town and the garments were for big name labels. The girls that were expert machinists left their skilled jobs for goodness knows what, call centres probably

I'm afraid we have all (as working people) been sold down the river for the price of cheap crap produced in factories abroad which have no regard for their workforce. I would love to boycott all goods made in China but I fear I would find little to buy. I hate to support a country with such a brutal regime, which has no respect for human or animal life.

When we moved to Leicestershire in 1975, all M&S clothes were made at the Corah factory in central Leicester. The quality control was second to none, and they had a huge seconds shop at the factory- which was amazing. The flaws were clearly marked with a pen- and honestly, most of us would not have noticed anything. A godsend when the kids were little. You could put an M&S t-shirt flat and it would fold perfectly, without having to pull it in all directions. All those factories either closed or were taken over by smaller outfits- and the quality plummeted.

People often say that the standard of education has gone down since then- but I don't believe so. I know many older ex 'textile' girls, now retired, who could not read or write effectively, but it did not matter. They went straight into textile jobs at 15, loved it and very proud of their jobs, and their poor academic skills were not noticed, nor a problem. Same for many industries all over the Midlands and the North.

I find that some of the M&S clothes made in China are peculiar sizes. I used to be confidant enough to go in, fancy something, buy it in my size and when I got home dicovered I needed at least 2 sizes larger.

Agus I was a confirmed customer of Laura Ashley for many years when they made they materials and clothes in Wales but all that changed when she died and manufacturing was closed down and moved abroad,I have never so much as bought a cushion cover from there since.

When a small chain of clothes shops in France called AgnesB suddenly had labels showing made in China, it was immediately boycotted and many people wrote letters of complaint to the company. It certainly made the company think and they returned to producing in France.

Just the point you are making gettingon. It can be done!

I remember years ago when no one would touch anything made in China as it was viewed as cheap rubbish.

Nfk. Sounds like my DH. He despairs at the lack of support for business, especially small business' in UK.

I saw a documentry not too long ago about the massive increase of Millionaires in China all under the age of 25yrs.