to all GN's living in France 4 year old boy missing

The petition has over 12500 signatures now.

That's true Mishap.

Those of us who have had unfortunate experiences with medics when parents were dying and so on will probably relate more to the parents of this child than those who have experienced only good treatment.

I thought the father very articulate , wonder what he does for a living? He seems a decent bloke, and VERY concerned for the well being of his child.

I am sure there is sincerity on both sides. It is just sad that there are "sides."

Medics too are indeed human; as are these parents.

We do not know what went on - we only have the parents' side.

I gather the older siblings are adults and hopefully they will therefore be able to visit Ashya in hospital.

I wonder why some posters seem to take it for granted that all medics are high minded compassionate individuals who are not susceptible to the usual lesser human qualities which the rest of us share.

According to the father the consultant ignored e-mails from himself and requests for the child's treatment records from a hospital abroad. Eventually, he ceased negotiating with the father and instead threatened a court order.

I found the father's and grandmother's testimonies sincere and convincing.

Proton treatment is available here and would have been considered if it had been appropriate.

I think the word "hope" in your post rose is the important one. It may be that there is no hope for this poor little boy.

Mishap The assumption that the doctors have acted unreasonably has no foundation that I can discern. They looked into the chosen treatment and rejected it on medical grounds; they offered the family a second medical opinion which presumably they did not take up; they were willing to take steps to safeguard this boy as necessary - what more can they do? Why the assumption that they are intransigent or cruel?

That is not the assumption that I can discern. I am sure that the medical staff have acted in the best interests of this child and explained the options available to his parents within the constraints of the National Health Service in England which does not offer treatments which may be available elsewhere in the world.
Doctors are extremely highly qualified and I am sure the staff at Southampton Hospital are very experienced and compassionate but the parents obviously felt that there could be hope of more treatment elsewhere.
Who has the ultimate right to decide what is best for one's own child after considering all the options available? It seems that the State thinks it has.

Absentgrandma

Post 13.17

'Perhaps POGS could post some Rotherham Taxi drivers reg no's so the good 'gransnetters' of that town can report anything suspicious to the police"

I don't think I could be expected not to comment on such a personal post so I will just say that you might find it suitable to connect this story to a paedophile ring just to try and belittle another poster but I will leave it up to others to judge both the relevance and whether or not it's particularly worthy to use contempt on a thread such as this.

When I first posted this case was in it's early stages. At the time the BBC and Sky said Ashya was 4 years old and the priority was to find the family due to the battery life on his feeding tube and concern for the families welfare.

I totally understand why the police had to act on the information given to them from Southampton Hospital and why they used all resources available due to the possible circumstances.

I am of the opinion that now it is obvious that the family should be together and I would not have thought it was beyond the intelligence of man to say job done, he has a feeding tube that works and supplies so send a release form from the hospital for the parents to sign and allow them to take full responsibility for his care.

I do have to ask the following for somebody to enlighten me.

What hospital were they taking him to. Presumably there is a hospital with his health records or have been in consultation with the parents, or were they hoping a hospital would give Ashy a treatment.

Why did the family, who have a very good sense of using the web, not inform the police themselves that they had food supplies and a working battery initially to stop the concern that was being shown for their family. They knew this was all happening and I would have thought they could have nipped all this in the bud, assuming this was about the battery life of the feeding tube.

They say they knew this treatment was not necessarily available in England why did they allow Southampton to do his surgery knowing he would probably have to be transferred abroad and all that entails for his welfare.

I think there is now a time for showing that if the welfare of Ashya was the sole reason for this then it is beyond time to bring the matter to a close and let the family take responsibility for his welfare and treatment. I am just glad he is doing apparently well at this moment in time and that might be due to the actions of the neuro team at Southampton Hospital and I find that is a point that has rarely been mentioned.

I agree there will be info the press doesn't share, but there is overwhelming support for this family's predicament being resolved asap, and what is incontrovertible is that a very poorly child needs his family around him today.

I absolutely agree that it looks as though the media and the police have been heavy-handed; that does not mean that I also agree with a blanket condemnation of the doctors involved who I am sure did their best to advise the parents in this delicate and tragic situation. Some news is too hard to hear, but that does not mean that the doctors should not deliver it as best they can. I am in no doubt that if the proton treatment had been appropriate in their opinion, they would have done all they could to facilitate it. Faced with a situation where the parents were putting this child through the stress of being taken off round the world to treatment that the doctors considered unwise what were they to do? Ignore it? leave the child to suffer? They were between the devil and the deep blue sea; and do not deserve the condemnation that is coming their way.

mini-mouse such good comments on your last paragraph and totally agree with you,Spanish Hospitals are second to none in my humble opinion and if God forbid I ever needed specialist treatment of any kind when abroad I would not hesitate in being treated by their health service,,at least you can talk to the Specialists or Consultants without them coming across as superior beings who only have their own opinions.

Why can the police and authorities get their act together to harass a middle class family doing their best for their child, yet not get into Rotherham and other places with child sex abuse problems and start rounding up a few suspects?

Mishap Surely, once the authorities knew that Ashya was safe, well cared for and with his family they should have backed off. Hammer and nut spring to mind.

They need support not arresting and extradition. What on earth will that achieve?

His Grandmother, who is in England, has just been on the radio and she has been unable to speak to any of the family.

Why should the parents have to take the advice of the UK hospital? They had evidently done their own research very thoroughly and decided to take a different course of action. It may not make any difference to the outcome, but at least they would fell that they have done their best.

My suggestion was not a petition, just sending a personal email asking for the PM to intervene and allow the Parents to be with their child, now, while he is alive but abroad and so alone.

I would not be happy to sign such a petition as none of us are in possession of the full facts. It is unlikely to be as simple as the surface media reports imply. The assumption that the doctors have acted unreasonably has no foundation that I can discern. They looked into the chosen treatment and rejected it on medical grounds; they offered the family a second medical opinion which presumably they did not take up; they were willing to take steps to safeguard this boy as necessary - what more can they do? Why the assumption that they are intransigent or cruel?

There is nothing simple about this kind of situation or these delicate decisions, as the media would have us believe. It is not nearly so black and white.

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Did you know you can email direct? It says all emails are read, so maybe we should write to David Cameron appealing for the Parents to be allowed to be with their son? Just found this on Google.

Just heard on radio that Ashya's been made a Ward of Court in England.

I'm incandescant over this whole episode. The implications are frightening

There's a second Change.org campaign:

https://www.change.org/p/police-david-cameron-and-co-release-brett-and-naghemeh-and-allow-them-to-choose-treatment-for-son-ashya?recruiter=62245627&utm_campaign=mailto_link&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

True, we shouldn't judge but out of compassion for Aysha, he needs his family close by and the reasons for separating them should be sorted immediately. Prisoners have better rights - they can be accompanied to see seriously ill family for compassionate reasons.

We don't know why the hospital and the English and Spanish police have acted as they have because we have only heard the family's side of the story. The authorities are bound by confidentiality.
The hospital has said that it was normal procedure for the boy to be taken out of the ward for periods as part of the rehabilitation process. They have also said that the chance to have a second opinion had been offered to the parents. The oncologist on Breakfast this morning said that around a hundred children have been funded by the NHS to have the proton treatment out of the UK.
The family were not going directly for that treatment. They made a thousand mile car journey with a very sick child to organise their property sale and then they apparently intended to go to eastern Europe for the treatment.
We really cannot judge without hearing both sides of the story and we may never do that.
I do not think that the hospital had any choice but to involve the police. If they had shrugged their shoulders and the boy's condition had deteriorated away from their care then they would have been criticised for different reasons.

And, Cameron could have intervened long before now!

I wonder why extradition is necessary and why the parents would be brought back to the UK when their child is in Spain? Warrants can be withdrawn or voided. Charges can be dropped. They could stop all this right now.

I heard Asha's garndmother on breakfast tv.... hooray for fiesty grandmas, I say. She did us other concerned grans proud!

What a change in some posts between the first page and the last.

The reason that the medics etc are so exercised I think is because of the way that this was done. If the parents had discussed with the doctors their wish to take the child elsewhere, then proper plans could have been made to connect up with another hospital abroad, to make sure he had batteries for his feeding device, to send over the medical history etc. Instead they just "did a moonight flit" which raises concerns all round.

The parents most likely thought, as I would have, that time would be wasted whilst meetings were held, agreements to be made, papers to be drawn up, etc.

The parents have not broken any law and the warrant should never have been issued - so much for free movement in Europe.

The boy is now in a stable condition and moved from the HDU to a LDU - so the Spanish hospital must have done something right. Southamptom may be a hospital of excellence but they are still governend by NICE over what they can and can't offer on the NHS.

His father Brett King defended his actions in a video posted on YouTube, saying the family were seeking a treatment Ashya had not been offered.

The charity Cancer Research UK says proton beam treatment is only available on the NHS in the UK for eye conditions.

It says countries in Europe, Japan and the USA are using or testing the treatment for types of cancer, including spinal cord tumours and cancers of the prostate, lung, liver and brain, as well as some children's cancers.

Mr King said the family was not "neglecting" the boy and Ashya was "responding so much better" than he did in hospital.

Mr King said the couple had "pleaded" with health authorities in Southampton for Ashya to receive the treatment, but were told it would have "no benefit whatsoever".

If it was my 4 year old child in that same condition, I would also take every opportunity to find a cure.

It seems that, as usual, the UK is sitting back and waiting for other countries to produce the results - that won't be much comfort to those who have been prevented from pursuing that treatment in similar circumstances.

Did anyone hear the grandmother on the Today programme? It was very sad. Whatever the truth turns out to be - and I suspect that perceptions will be very relevant here - it is an absolute disgrace that the parents are in custody and the child alone in hospital. There are clearly so many ways this could be dealt with compassionately- such as one parent with a guard being allowed to stay with the little boy. Why are our police seeking extradition?