Prince Charles in Ireland

jbf I didn't actually say we are now dominating or oppressing anyone. However the record of our interference and meddling in the affairs of other countries still echoes in those countries and resounds for years after troops have withdrawn. The Middle East is a prime example. We drew arbitary borders, installed and supported dodgy dictators, decided we didn't like them and helped overthrow them, then withdrew and left chaos behind.

I can't see any difference between 'govern' and 'rule' in the case of the UK. Our government acknowledges the Monarch. That's just pedantry.

Yes I accept rule was used many years ago but I was surprised people still considered themselves ruled by Britain , unless they fought for independence

It sounds tyrannical these days but people did say rule and not govern.

But British rule sounds tyrannical surely , does Britain rule or govern

Dead right, jingl. The recent bombing and destruction of lives and homes in Aden has hardly been mentioned in the media but I have read first hand accounts from friends and contacts who have been saying for a very long time that their lives were better under British rule.

I don't know who in the Middle East, and I thought that was where we are now in this conversation, is being dominated or oppressed by us. I've no doubt many out there would wish we were 'dominating' their worlds.

Sadly, you can't send in a load of men of the constitution required to undertake soldiering without, sometimes, their over aggressive and vengeful side to surface. It shouldn't happen, but that is very much how things are in the real world.

Maybe, but is it then forgivable in occupying troops but unforgiveable in an occupied people? I would have thought that any atrocitiy committed by our troops was too many. We have an appaling record of occupation and oppression and we should set higher standards. It is a fact that the more we restrict and dominate a people the more likely they are to rebel and in that rebellion do things which harm the innocent.

Yes. Maybe. But the "atrocities" committed by our troops are a drop in the ocean compared to what has, and is being done to ordinary people in the Middle East. And I've no doubt it was the same in N.I.

I meant the post before the last one

I find that post confusing.

Anyway, the peace agreement has been signed, and is on force. So why are we going over old ground?

I think it is up to the people whose lives have been devastated by such atrocities who must decide whether they can forgive and forget or at least try not to be vengeful. Fortunately, some can.

Our own forces have been implicated in all sorts of atrocities and brutality, including the killing of Baha Mousa in Iraq, who was tortured and beaten to death by British soldiers and whose death was certified by a military doctor as occurring through natural causes.

There were atrocities on both sides but it was hardly surprising that an "army" formed to counter an unjust and corrupt political system that tacitly supported the discrimination that Irish Catholics were subjected to in almost every sphere of their lives. Brutality and violence are never right but when one group is forcefully oppressed by another it's nearly always the outcome.

Having seen what the bombs can do, I stand by my original post.

I certainly don't recall the British planting bombs and then setting off more when people arrived to help.

No, I will never forgive or forget.

Same here greyduster. Enough of our troops lost their lives trying to keep their peace for them. To protect them and their families.

I am sorry, that was rude. This thread has touched some raw nerves and it is time I left it.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I wish their hands had been tied behind their backs on Bloody Sunday, it was this massacre that caused many to join the IRA, their membership soared

Operation Demetrius Greyyduster en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius
Fully admitted to now.

And Trisher, how do you substantiate your remark that British soldiers tortured innocent people. We fought their so called bloody 'war' with one hand tied behind our backs and as for torture, I don't think the British Army can teach the IRA much about that!

I have been to Ireland for holidays and have met with only kindness and good manners. The only time I have been treated discourteously was when my cousin, who was working in Eire at the time, brought his Irish girlfriend to visit us in our married quarter in Londonderry in 1973. She barely spoke to either DH or myself and clearly wished to be somewhere else. No-one forced her to come and I wish she hadn't, given her attitude. It was almost as if, every time she looked at either of us, she was silently screaming "Get out of my country, you shouldn't be here". God knows we hadn't asked to be there and that went for every other member of the British Army. My cousin went on to marry a lovely Irish lady with whom I get on famously, and has lived in the republic for many years.

trisher, sometimes, for individuals, the emotions can be the ruling factor in a judgement. As my feelings towards Gerry Adams is hardly likely to cause any trouble to anyone else, I am content with that.

Tegan, unpleasant but that goes on in the four UK countries , go back a few decades and boarding houses in England had no Irish notices in the window. What I don't understand is why Charles is chocolate but Adams still a villain. Even a tea cup viewed as a secret sneer , silly

I do agree with you trisher. I will have to say one thing though and that is, I don't know how Irish people are treated in England these days but, when we used to go to Ireland there were several occasions when people came up behind us and spoke to us in a very unpleasant way [this was in Dublin] and a friend of mine who was in Ireland with her husband, who had Irish connections went to the toilet in the pub where they were drinking abd was followed in by some girls who pined her up against a wall. This happened just a few years ago . For all the warmth and friendliness that I've met with in Ireland it was the unpleasantness that has stayed with me and upset me greatly.