Public access defibrillators

katek I like that song too

There's a book by an Oxford academic about how we are all starburst, I'll find it and post the title here. Quite a nice thought.

I think that failure to understand definitions can lead to false expectations of this equipment. Some people believe that a heart attack is synonymous with a cardiac arrest and that this equipment will help with all situations. PADs only work with non beating hearts, but that in itself is qualified by the type of electrical rhythm being produced by the heart. Only certain types of fibrillation can be shocked back to normal rhythms. Chances of survival are very low following an arrest and drop rapidly by the minute. Basically if you don't get CPR/PAD in under 4 mins then you have only a 40% chance of survival.

I'm with bags on this...my father had been suffering from congestive heart failure which we all knew was terminal. He arrested at home but was resuscitated by the paramedics, or rather his heart was restarted but my father had gone. He lay for 2 days in a coma, hooked up to all available machines but never again opened his eyes. He had been deprived of oxygen for too long. We sat for two dreadful days waiting for the inevitable and watching this once proud man reduced to a husk. It was simply horrendous. Sometimes resuscitation is not the best thing.

Thatbags....your words about stardust take me back to Joni Mitchell/Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young singing 'Woodstock'

Actually though, in the majority of cases, resuscitation is only delaying the inevitable if what I've been told by Heartstart trainers is correct. The percentage survival rate after CPR is, in fact, very low.

I'm not arguing that "resuscitation only means delaying the inevitable", only that I don't think it is wrong not to atempt resuscitation, which is implied by the phrase "it's always better to do something rather than nothing".

Have to disagree, but politely!

I know two people, close to me, who are alive and well (well as in really fit and healthy now, taken up running etc) who had heart attacks in their mid 60s. One was resuscitated by a paramedic, the other by a passerby. They both had stents fitted and have never looked back.

There seems to be a belief that resuscitation only means delaying the inevitable, either death from a further heart attack or a life lived in pain and suffering. This is not usually the case these days.

In practical terms what I'm saying amounts to the fact that I don't think it is wrong to do nothing other than calling for help, so I would never blame anyone who didn't do something like CPR.

I don't agree that doing something is always better than doing nothing because I don't agree that preventing natural death is always better than allowing it. I realise this is probably an out on a limb view but it is genuinely what I think. Death is part of life as I see it, part of the recycling of star dust of which we are made.

The personal and emotional side of this issue is, of course, separate from what I've said above but what I've said above is a deeply held belief of mine.

We have a defibrillator at the football club in our village, which is great though I have often wondered how long it would take to find someone to open the club if it was closed. We also have another in a phone box which doubles as a book exchange at the other end of the village. However it is not near any buildings except a pub and a garage along the road. I don't think many know that it is there!

As for CPR, I have had first aid training in the past but could never remember the sequence of numbers. I think the 'Stayin' Alive' advert by Vinnie Jones really helped me not to stress too much about this. As others have said, 'Doing something is better than doing nothing'!

I think they are great, they are easy to use, they have really good instructions and do not shock if it is not a shockable rhythm.

We live an hour from the local A&E, we would love them here.

Charleygirl, I would have made them listen and not get him up, but I am a bit scary at times!

I am like loopylou I have problems standing on two feet, one would be impossible unless I had a Zimmer frame and that would defeat the object of the exercise. I could give verbal instructions which I suppose would be some help.

I have found that people do not always listen. I was close to a man who fell flat on his face in the street having tripped. He was around 60 I would have thought. I wanted him to stay put until injuries could be assessed and he could get his breath back but about 3 people dragged him up on his feet and he was still dazed. Helping when one knows what one is doing does not always work.

Absolutely Tegan, far better than nothing

We used to have very detailed training sessions about CPR; however, at the last one the man who gave it said thatmost people were too scared to do anything or sort of knew what to do but didn't because they couldn't quite remember how long to wait between pushes etc. So he just said, get someone to call 999 and just pump away as hard as you can because if you do nothing the patient will die anyway and you might just give them enough time for the ambulance to arrive and save them. Anything is better than doing nothing.

Firstly I've not heard that, secondly I can't stand on one leg without wobbling.......

Blimey! It might be difficult to assess how much pressure to exert with one's foot if you hadn't had training though.

Apparently, one can do CPR with the heel of one's foot on a person's chest if kneeling is a problem.

That's totally understandable Charleygirl
I just hope and pray that the situation never arises.

I've only ever once been the first person on the scene of an accident and thankfully someone else arrived quickly to help me.

I would not like help but I would not be in a position to say so! That is what I was trying to get across badly.

I am like you loopylou having had resus and first aid training all of my working life, I also would not walk by. My problem would be doing it properly because I cannot kneel, not even on one knee.

I wouldn't be prepared to stand by and do nothing so I guess I'm a ' do gooder', as much as I hate that expression because I think it's derogatory in this instance.
I have had first aid and resuscitation training throughout my whole working life and I would hope that at least the person might have a fighting chance of surviving.

If it isn't successful then so be it but to do nothing..........

I do not put paramedics in the class of do gooders. They are highly trained and do an excellent job.

I've already said I agree Charleygirl but I don't think it's fair to call people who step in to help do gooders. The paramedic who saved the life of the performer in manchester recently did just that, saved a life. The man who had the heart attack has been interviewed in the local media a number of times and is very appreciative.

Additionally the term 'do gooders' is so universally seen as derogatory (sadly)

I have thought about having DNR tatooed on my forehead. I do not want a do gooder trying to resuscitate me and leaving me in a worse state if I survived.

Shocking and so sad janerowena. One of the performers in a recent Peter Kay performance in Manchester had a heart attack during the show, his life was saved by a paramedic in the audience

I'm with thatbags and Ana - no CPR and let me go please. The Observer magazine had an interesting piece some months ago written by an American doctor. He has do not resuscitate on his medical notes and said most of his colleagues have done the same. He was in his early 60's

That's truly shocking janer and must have been so traumatic for everyone.

It was dreadful - we had only been to the funeral of another teacher, together, a few months earlier. Dreadful for the children, too. Fit as a fiddle and in her mid fifties.

Good heavens JaneR....that must have been dreadful for all concerned. DH had attack at the office so he was in A & E in under 15 mins as he was just up the road from the hospital. Very fortunate for him.