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Public access defibrillators

(39 Posts)
Katek Sun 07-Jun-15 20:05:16

Wondered what other people's thoughts were on these? Our community association has just installed one in the local pub and ran a (poorly attended) training course. We also have a further two in the village including the doctor's surgery. I'm a bit ambivalent about them. I've read a few articles from BHF and in the BMJ which appear to indicate that there are very few cardiac arrests which can actually be helped by defibrillation as some of the heart rhythms produced are not shockable. The resuscitation window is also very short (sub 2 mins for 80% success rate) so unless the incident actually occurs in close proximity to the PAD with someone nearby trained or prepared to use the device, then its use is limited. The article in the BMJ suggested that it was probably just as effective to train more people in CPR

Grannyknot Sun 07-Jun-15 20:20:36

All I know about this is as doctor acquaintance who has a pacemaker says it's his biggest fear that a poorly trained member of the public will paddle him one day when he is just dozing in a chair somewhere...!

Katek Sun 07-Jun-15 20:22:53

Lol Grannyknot!

Katek Sun 07-Jun-15 20:24:04

Oops sorry for the lol! Thought I was still on FB

tanith Sun 07-Jun-15 20:26:52

PADS as they are called are very simple to use and you do not need to be trained to use one. When you open it up the machine will give clear instructions with what you should do and once the pads are in place it will detect the heart rythym and it won't deliver a shock unless one is needed. CPR should be carried out too but its better to do something rather than nothing.

tanith Sun 07-Jun-15 20:28:38

Emergency services will tell you if there is a machine in close proximity if you dialed 999 about a collapse.

thatbags Sun 07-Jun-15 20:30:53

I'm ambivalent about them too, not least because if I suffer a massive cardiac arrest I want to be allowed to be dead! Likewise re CPR.

Katek Sun 07-Jun-15 20:33:38

Is that the case across the UK Tanith? Is there a central register of PADS?

tanith Sun 07-Jun-15 20:37:01

I think Ambulance trusts are informed when a Public Access Defibrillator is installed and they encourage any institution or business inform them if they have installed one in their buildings. I don't know about a central register Katek but certainly the Ambulance Service should be able to tell you if there is one close by.

Katek Sun 07-Jun-15 20:45:22

It's good to see some joined up thinking on this Tanith.

janerowena Sun 07-Jun-15 20:46:56

There's one at DBH's school, for the school and the village. There are always a couple of nurses on duty so it makes sense that they should have it.

Ana Sun 07-Jun-15 20:48:34

I'm with you, bags! shock

loopylou Sun 07-Jun-15 20:49:15

I'm all for attempting CPR and I think that in most cases defibrillating someone can only be beneficial - doing nothing isn't an option.

I do have misgivings should the patient have a pacemaker but even then all attempts to resuscitate should go ahead.

I don't know what the success rate is but definitely doing nothing is going to be fatal in the majority of cases.

janerowena Sun 07-Jun-15 20:49:32

I rather like knowing they have one there, in case he has a heart attack. Although it didn't do my friend much good two years ago - she died on stage in front of a group of girls when she was teaching them a dance routine. It was too severe an attack.

Katek Sun 07-Jun-15 20:53:56

Good heavens JaneR....that must have been dreadful for all concerned. DH had attack at the office so he was in A & E in under 15 mins as he was just up the road from the hospital. Very fortunate for him.

janerowena Sun 07-Jun-15 21:01:52

It was dreadful - we had only been to the funeral of another teacher, together, a few months earlier. Dreadful for the children, too. Fit as a fiddle and in her mid fifties.

loopylou Sun 07-Jun-15 21:09:17

That's truly shocking janer and must have been so traumatic for everyone.

Iam64 Sun 07-Jun-15 21:33:09

Shocking and so sad janerowena. One of the performers in a recent Peter Kay performance in Manchester had a heart attack during the show, his life was saved by a paramedic in the audience

I'm with thatbags and Ana - no CPR and let me go please. The Observer magazine had an interesting piece some months ago written by an American doctor. He has do not resuscitate on his medical notes and said most of his colleagues have done the same. He was in his early 60's shock

Charleygirl Sun 07-Jun-15 21:53:55

I have thought about having DNR tatooed on my forehead. I do not want a do gooder trying to resuscitate me and leaving me in a worse state if I survived.

Iam64 Mon 08-Jun-15 09:41:36

I've already said I agree Charleygirl but I don't think it's fair to call people who step in to help do gooders. The paramedic who saved the life of the performer in manchester recently did just that, saved a life. The man who had the heart attack has been interviewed in the local media a number of times and is very appreciative.

Additionally the term 'do gooders' is so universally seen as derogatory (sadly)

Charleygirl Mon 08-Jun-15 10:13:02

I do not put paramedics in the class of do gooders. They are highly trained and do an excellent job.

loopylou Mon 08-Jun-15 18:00:07

I wouldn't be prepared to stand by and do nothing so I guess I'm a ' do gooder', as much as I hate that expression because I think it's derogatory in this instance.
I have had first aid and resuscitation training throughout my whole working life and I would hope that at least the person might have a fighting chance of surviving.

If it isn't successful then so be it but to do nothing..........

Charleygirl Mon 08-Jun-15 18:10:00

I would not like help but I would not be in a position to say so! That is what I was trying to get across badly.

I am like you loopylou having had resus and first aid training all of my working life, I also would not walk by. My problem would be doing it properly because I cannot kneel, not even on one knee.

loopylou Mon 08-Jun-15 18:25:35

That's totally understandable Charleygirl
I just hope and pray that the situation never arises.

I've only ever once been the first person on the scene of an accident and thankfully someone else arrived quickly to help me.

thatbags Mon 08-Jun-15 18:42:03

Apparently, one can do CPR with the heel of one's foot on a person's chest if kneeling is a problem.