11+

That's exactly how I felt Anniebach. Consequently, I didn't work hard enough, and got low grades in all my CSE's. It wasn't until I decided to enter the nursing profession, and got top marks in the entrance test, that I realised I might actually be able to make something of my life. My late parents were very proud of my achievement when I passed my state finals and got my registration. My mother told me, years later, that she went to the primary school and discovered that I was only five marks short of passing the eleven plus, and if there had been more places at the grammar school, I would have been offered one!

I was just thinking about 'The Family From One End Street' the other day. Although they were old fashioned when I read them, 50+ years ago, I loved the stories. I think they were in two books.

I remember the problems with the Grammar school uniform, but the story I liked best was when Rose(?) helped with ironing and ruined the artificial silk slip! The family came from Otley.

Sorry to go high jack an important OP.

X

How damaging to be told - you are a failure when only age eleven.

My three grandchildren all attended the same high school, youngest still does, how difficult if they had taken the 11+ but one had failed

Just popped back in to see whether this link was still running, expecting it to be long done and dusted and here it still is. it occurs to me that those of you who would like to know what education was like pre war might enjoy 'The Family from One End Street'. It's a gentle story but shows how hard it was for a working class family to find the money for a uniform so that their child could take up the scholarship she'd won.

I have just been looking on t'internet to see if I could find an old public information film clip about secondary modern schools where an appallingly patronising man was explaining to a mother about the sort of education her daughter would get after failing the 11+. Horrendous, but typical of its day.

All these posts show just what a dreadful system it was.

I can understand how some grammar school posters felt it helped them progress in the days when very many secondary modern schools never aspired to anything better as they had the idea that "well these children are not clever enough." Now we have many good comprehensive schools everyones chances are so much better.

I think around the 1940s many Private Schools had become Government-funded Grammar Schools. That was certainly true of the one I went to.
In Muswell Hill, N London, Tollington School for Boys, and the Tollington High School (girls) were eventually amalgamated in a newly built Comprehensive, which after several changes of name settled into being called Fortismere. My old school building is still part of the campus, being the Sixth Form department. On reflection, I'm rather glad they waited until I had left before introducing the girls - I think the culture shock would have been uncomfortable!

The school today has a enviable reputation for keeping house prices high in the surrounding area.

The Tollington Schools disappeared forty-six yeas ago - but we still managed to attract about 100 ex-pupils to the Annual Reunion Lunch a couple of weeks ago.

My perception was that more children went to private schools - certainly if you failed the 11+ it was quite likely. They are so expensive these days that a lot of people are priced out. I certainly have a lot of friends who were privately educated who had to use state for their own children.
When I failed my parents looked at 2 options of private, but I wasn't an only child so they couldn't afford it.

Deeda I am not sure about the numbers, but in the 60s the percentage of private schools was about 8%. The lowest percentage was about 6% in the 70s and it's about 7% at the moment. Until 1975 some grammar schools were partly funded privately and partly funded by the state. Two thirds of these schools chose to become private schools.

Looking back I realise that the big difference in the 50s was the lack of private schools. Although my primary school was in quite a poor area I think several children in my class would have been privately educated nowadays. The same was true of the grammar school; many of the girls came from professional or show business families who would probably opt for private education today.

I think by 1970 sec moderns were beginning to change because comprehensives were becoming more common. By 1975 most systems were comprehensive. Interesting history here www.timeshighereducation.com/news/comprehensive-schools-the-history/92186.article
I think the fact that children were beginning to take A levels and go on to university only emphasises the fact that there were children in secondary schools who would have been capable of achieving more if only they had been given the chance.
nanapug congratulations t your DGCs. I hope they are happy in their new schools.
One of the things I am greatly in favour of is Life-long education. I have a number of friends who went to university in their 40s, having left school at 15. I think they appreciated their degree course far more than I did when I was 18.

Thank you Wilma

I went to a sec mod that only did CSE and so had to change at 14 yrs to a sec mod that did O'levels and then into the grammar school 6th form.
I am very pro comprehensives as a result.
I got there in the end, but it was hard. It seemed stupidity to send an 11 yr old who intended taking A'levels to a school that not only didn't have a 6 th form but didn't do O'levels.

trisher that's what I found shocking too. Plus the idea of 15 yr olds sitting on chairs for primary school children and that even if a pupil did manage to get O Levels, many Grammar schools would not let them transfer there to do A Levels.

It's clear that in later years changes were made to try and help more able pupils at secondary moderns, but it was a drop in the ocean. No wonder people wanted their children to go to Grammar school when the alternative was so unappealing.

I lived in Scotland, but I can see how lucky I was not to have been educated during the time of Grammar schools. I'm from a council estate and my parents worked hard all their lives, but I suspect the cost of keeping a child in a Grammar school would have been detrimental to the whole family. I would have hated to be one of the poor kids.

nanapug I do indeed celebrate achievement. Congratulations to both of your GC and I wish them well in the future.

When I went to the secondary modern school we took CSE's, certificate of secondary education. They were graded from 6 to 1. A grade one was equivalent to a GCE pass, but hardly any employers gave them any credence, and you could not take A levels as the school didn't have a sixth form. If you wanted to take higher education, you had to go to technical college, if you could get in. Secondary modern schools only equipped you for being a housewife! Well that's my opinion any way. I am quite proud of what I achieved given the school I had to go to.

trisher I sat my GCSE's in 1970 so those that sat A level would have done so 1971/2

Deeda at my all girls school the brighter girls were encouraged to go into the arts stream, the less bright, the science stream and the dullest the domestic stream.
I was equally good at arts and science but had to fight to do science.
Seriously, can any of you imagine me with a degree in theology teaching at a missionary school as my headmistress suggested?

Don't think the pearls would have gone down well in the jungle

DH and I, both from dysfunctional backgrounds for different reasons went to Grammar School and although financial reasons stopped us going on to full time further education we both went to day release college and did well. My DC are both products of Comprehensives, one has excelled and one hasn't. We are all individuals but my GS opened social opportunities for me I could never have had at the Sec modern I would have gone to.

If that is how you wish to interpret what I said Wilma that is fine. That is your prerogative. However, I was certainly not bragging, neither am I in favour of grammar school over comprehensives. As I said before, I was purely trying to say that whatever school they go to their direction in life will be different and I stand by that. It is inevitable. That is life. I am however, like tinaf1, very proud of them both. Surely we all appreciate achievement, be it academic or otherwise?

Thank you for the kind congratulation and I hope any other grandparents & parents who are waiting for their children / granchilden's results hope you all get good news

ninathenana I too found the Wickie entry shocking and I thought I knew about sec moderns. I didn't know that lack of grammar school places meant that children of ability were sent to sec moderns during the "bulge years", or that Grammar schools received more funding. But the most shocking was the idea that secondary children no matter how able could not do A levels or progress to further education.
I wonder when you were at school? Wickie says "1963, for instance, only 318 former secondary modern pupils sat A levels. None went on to university."
Were you later? or perhaps one of a very few?

Been away, so missed this thread until today.,
I was a Grammar School girl, and proud of it. It was girls only, and all the better for that, I consider. No-one could have come from a poorer background than I did, but I was lucky enough to pass the 11+ and that was all that mattered.
As far as I am aware, it's still all that matters, isn't it? I know of nothing which says the poor and disadvantaged cannot attend them.
Long may they survive, because in my opinion they give a better education and better standards of behaviour and discipline.

Well done to your DGD tinaf1 I was wondering how it went.

Wilma
I went to S. M. We took GCSE's General Certificate of Secondary Education if my memory serves me right. I passed 6 and could have gone on to upper 6th for to take A levels, a couple of classmates went to uni but I got a job in a travel agents instead.
I don't understand what you find shocking about the Wickie article.

Congratulations tinaf1

My granddaughter rang me tonight to tell us she has passed her 11 plus and while I respect all the opinions that have been posted on this thread ( we are all entitled to them) I am so happy and proud of her because she has worked so hard I wanted to share my news thanks