This doesn't seem quite right....

I know what you mean Katek but it depends on the Ts and Cs of her employers. On the plus side if she was to receive payment for untaken leave it would be the same amount. Where I worked the annual salary was divided by 12 then by how many days were in the month. Also, employees in a managerial position were (supposedly) paid a salary but did not claim overtime. They worked for the joy of being there!

Surely in any job, after all paid leave has been taken, and of course you are paid for sickness ( for yourself) days taken off to look after somebody else are never paid for by an employer?

That doesn't seem right, Katek. The rule in my Local Authority was 1/365 per day for teachers and Nursery Nurses, who were paid all year round, and a formula based on term-time days plus holiday allowance for other staff, who weren't paid for school holidays. It caused a lot of aggravation on strike days, as support staff felt they were more heavily penalised for their missing day.

Paid leave was only for very specific circumstances at my school, and this would have been unpaid there too. Though attendance policies differ.

It's not so much the loss of a day's pay as how the day's pay is calculated roses. Unfortunately she doesn't get payment for untaken leave alima or she would be two days in credit from Xmas hols. She's a faculty head so puts in a fair amount of unpaid hours to fulfil managerial aspects of the post over and above her teaching time.

That's what we thought it should be maggiem but her local authority seem to do things differently!

Yes, sorry Katek I see that, schools don't count days ( school holidays) as 'days' but only term time, a bit of a pain.Obviously as well, Mothers who teach need to take more time off than Fathers who teach ( DH is a teacher, and never took an unpaid day off in his life!)

As I understood it, it may have changed, teachers pay and conditions allow for 4 personal responsibility days per year. I thought it was with no loss of pay. Meaning that it is similar to you being ill yourself.

Of course this may vary according to the LA. Is she in a union? They might help.

I've never heard of the 4 personal responsibility days, J52. Perhaps this was a local agreement?

The U.K. Gov. Website describes it as Parent and Family leave. They do say that the employer may or may not see it as paid leave. So I suppose it depends on the individual's contract of employment.
Now lots of schools are Academies the contracts are with them, not necessarily the LA.

I hope I can explain this. Teachers pay and conditions are a bit complicated. In regard to unpaid hours, there is no such thing in teaching! Teachers are required to spend 1265 directed hours per year (classroom teaching, parents evenings, training courses, staff meetings) plus whatever is needed for planning and preparation. You could go into school every day of the year and it would still only be part of the contract. There are no days in lieu.

Supply teachers are paid by the annual salary divided by the number of school days, so in order to cover the cost of DILs absence the school would need to deduct this amount from her salary. It used to be a 365th but obviously then each day of absence cost the school money which in a bad year could mean the loss of a classroom assistant when it came to balancing the budget.

Personal responsibilty days only existed in a few LEAs which recognised that women mostly bear responsibility for family crises and tried to address this as a matter of inequality. Now schools have responsibilty for staffing budgets I don't think there's a school in the country that could bear that cost.

Of course if your DIL is in an Academy they can set their own terms of employment, as they like

Hope this clears things up a little.

I suppose you could argue that they were not 'unpaid' hours. She is paid an annual salary to fulfil a job.

However as a former teacher I fully understand the pressures and time committment that good teachers do over and above classroom teaching hours both during term times and in school closure time.

The school may have had to pay a supply teacher for the day to cover her classes. There is no regulatory board for the agencies so they do charge higher rates than the daily rate of a f/t teacher and the school will have to find the money to do this.

Any job where the day to day work is supporting people (education/health care/ social care etc) needs a replacement on the day to actually run the organisation safely. These tend to be more 'public service' roles dependent on public funds. private agencies make money thrugh this. That is 'market driven'!

It does feel unfair..but life is!

just seen your post roses. My DH and I took turns if kids were ill (both teachers) though thankfully it happened rarely!

Thanks for a very informative post jayanna-perhaps I should have said earlier but we are all in Scotland. Does this make any major difference in terms of employment conditions? Both dil and ds teach and live in fear of dgs getting something like chickenpox one after the other....theoretically they could end up with no salary that month! Obviously I would help out in this situation -as would other granny -but we're both too far away to be of much help with the one day off scenario. I have done that once in an emergency, but was out by 6 am to catch first train or else face a 2.5 hour drive each way. Other granny is even further away. It's hard for parents when there's no local family support.

Scotland is different but I think the same principles apply broadly speaking. You can see all the terms and conditions on the SNCT website. Both our sets of parents were 300 miles + when my children were little so I appreciate her dread of chicken pox!

I know they have the right to dock her pay but it seems a tad mean. I'd be a rubbish employer (from a profit making point of view) because I'd have to pay well over minimum wage and allow for the fact that my employees have responsibilities over and above work.