I know my place

I think that is the view of a lot of people Anniebach I grew up in a council house as did most of central Scotland and and it wasn't a problem for us...or for the few folk we knew who didn't.Council house schemes (estates) even now aren't generally looked down on but I see a lot in the press that implies that people who are schemies are lazy shiftless ,druggies etc etc etc.That is not true .Go into most houses in the scheme next to me and they are like palaces,people work damn hard to keep their wee houses looking great.We werevery ucky when we gt married 42 years ago to be given a brand new 2 bedroom and boxroom terraced house with gardens back and front and a small lockup garage....we loved it there had brilliant friends and we stayed there for 8 years until we could afford our first flat ,there are many folk though who dont want the burden of a mortgage and why should they have one when they can manage fine in Council housing but would struggle with a mortgage and the upkeep of the house.I find the media attitude to council tenants appalling ,its certainly not the attitude of the people where I live

Bottom of what? If it means income, then that makes some sense - as you have demonstrated Annie, as someone in a council house, money is tight for you.

I assume that this is what it means rather than some slur on those who live in social housing as it is now called. I too did so for part of my life; and my working life took me to many many council houses where I met some wonderful people.

I was brought up on a council estate in the house that mum n dad had lived in since 1950 when it was a new build we never had a car, we all rode push bikes or took the bus. When dad died a in 1985 mum stayed there. Our section of the estate was always neat and tidy with pretty little front gardens. Yes there were a couple of roads that had a bad reputation but on the whole it was good. Mum n dad weren't well off, they both worked but I never felt my brother and I lacked anything. I'm proud of my roots. My brother whent to uni and had a high powered job.
These days sections of council estates are sold off for private housing and of course a lot have been bought on 'right to buy schemes' it's often hard to tell which houses on an estate are private and which aren't.

I only wish I could live in a council flat even if it did mean I was considered the 'bottom' of society! I would willingly trade that for my current mortgage payments..

There is this notion around that people only rent a council house if they are very hard up - that council houses are something "given" to the poor, like a kind of charity, and that they should only get one while they are desperate and be turfed out as soon as possible.

It is not true.

Definitly not true Elegran
Devongirl council rents are by no means cheap these days. Certainly not in S.E.
Mum had a couple of near neighbours that were two car families and many had foriegn holidays.

I grew up in council housing in a working class area. You could always rely on your neighbours to help you out because we were all in the same boat. I remember when I got married I was surprised to get home from work and see that no-one had taken in my washing when it had rained - something you could take for granted on the council estate!

I don't think they mean 'bottom' as a derogatory description. I think they mean it more along the lines of least powerful. Those who have the least choices etc.

ninathenana it's interesting that your mum had neighbours who had two cars and took foreign (expensive?) holidays. Is the original idea of council housing ( council providing a home to people whose income was too low to support a mortgage) changed for the worse ? The right to buy scheme introduced by M. Thatcher meant that many families who could then afford a mortgage stayed in their council homes. This left a waiting list of hopefuls who then had little chance of getting a decent roof over their heads. Then the buy to let landlords moved in with cheaply purchased cash loans, and the result is what we see today. Councils having to pay or subsidise properties for tenants over which they have no control. And ....a dire shortage of ready to loan out council property.

No matter what they meant, they said bottom of society and this an insult

Bottom of society Luckgirl, does society mean income to you?

I was brought up in a council house and lived in one myself with my children until I met and married my DH. I would have loved to buy my council house but as a single parent I was unable to secure even a small mortgage (even though my weekly rent was higher). My dad lives in a beautiful (recently modernised) local authority bungalow. I would like to point out that whilst they tend to be cheaper and of much better quality than private rented property, local authority housing is still by no means cheap. My dad pays over £100 per week in rent which would cover a mortgage!

I agree with what you are saying Anniebach and listened to a recent interview where people who live in LA high rises in London class themselves as "extremely lucky" to have secure LA tenancies when the alternative is often homelessness or grotty private rental. (Obviously before anyone jumps on me this does not mean they were lucky to be in that terrible fire).

"Bottom of society" is a horrible term, deliberately used to provoke anger. How dare the media (or anyone) refer to someone living in rented property as being the "bottom of society".

Does this mean if you live in a home you own you are the top of society? or just damned lucky?

The irony is luckygirl that many people living in rented accommodation actually pay more in rent than many pay in mortgage!

There have been reports of so called socialist union leaders who refuse to move out of their council houses despite earning huge amounts of money. Thus depriving someone in genuine need of a secure roof over their head.

apologies but things just keep popping into my head.

As David Lammy recently said, those truly at the bottom are homeless or in private rented accommodation - they have no security and often are in very sub-standard conditions.

I certaintly no not consider myself the bottom of society , I don't consider anyone the bottom of society, bottom of means dregs to me , don't consider snyone the top of society either. Society is people who breathe the same air .

Council housing is not and never was for the "bottom of society" It was and is for anyone who applies and meets the criteria and is next on the (long) list.

My father was a teacher, my mother a cook. I lived with them in council houses in four different cities, and my parents were still in one years later. The neighbours worked at all kinds of jobs - I remember a naval officer and his family, a young lawyer and his wife and child, a driving test examiner, a postman, several nurses and nursing assistants, office workers, sales assistants, a bus driver, labourers, gardeners. Not people to be treated patronisingly as the bottom of the heap. There was also people with no work, some actively looking for it, some not, and in some parts there were anti-social idiots who were not liked by the others. A microcosm of society as a whole, in fact. I didn't know of any millionaires, but there may have been some somewhere.

I am now an owner-occupier (not in an ex-council property) Some of the people I meet in the area have never lived anywhere but in a pleasant suburb, and have this same blinkered view of council tenants. One informed me that her neighbour, a nice chap who had committed the sin of parked his car outside her house, "Came from a scheme, of course, so he has no idea about being considerate"

To me being bottom doesn't mean dregs - it implies being the most unfortunate.

You seem to be spoiling for a fight Annie.

But council tenants are not the most unfortunate - they are a mixed bunch but they all have one thing in common, they have a home.

I agree with Annie. I don't see the need to label people as "the bottom" or anything else. Society is all of us: all of us are what make society. Besides which, some of those flats were bought, and worth a very pretty penny. I feel its just the media stirring the pot by labelling people as less fortunate, more vulnerable, etc.

Just as The media like to do . Divide and stir up trouble .

No riverwalk, I care about people and am cross that bottom of society was even said,

For you it means unfortunate, in which way do you consider unfortunate?

Not owning an house, being homeless ? Being disabled ? Having cancer?