BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

Bluegal, join the club. Not even the Brexiters know what is it all about. They haven't a clue so why should we? It's happening - go with the flow and complain bitterly when it doesn't deliver what we were all promised.
I stand firmly behind the 15 Brexit Mutineers as featured in the Daily Telegraph and I don't even vote Tory.

More than 500 days after the vote, the brexit negotiators seem to have achieved very little. This doesn't seem to worry some Leavers who always thought it would be easy.

Meanwhile the brexit press has to scrabble about trying to find some "brexit bonus" they can declaim to pull the wool over the eyes of their readers, our PM gets more and more strident and desperate and most of us Remainers, who realised it would never be easy, let alone good for the UK, are feeling more and more worried.

I now tend to tune out when it starts to go 'over my head' I now just think its happening whether I like it or not (I don't) what will be will be now I have no control . Its like train heading for the buffers in my eyes.

I am totally unclear what any of us as individuals will be gaining from leaving, and I am dead sure any brexiter will be unable to explain either.

I am sure what we will be losing, but that isn’t what is being asked for here.

No clue, I’m just hoping it will all turn out for the best.

Same here, Bluegal [and I do read/listen/discuss a lot of political stuff]. I'll be honest and say that, prior to the referendum I knew nothing 'single markets','customs unions' etc etc. It's been a steep learning curve. However, the more I do learn the more I'm convinced that my 'remain' vote was the correct one, it was outvoted because the gutter press used lies and deceit to encourage people to vote to leave. Having said that, it is important to listen to both sides of the argument and I'm sure brexiters will be here to convince you that what we're doing is good for the country and will give you lots of examples to prove it.

Bluegal you are certainly not dim, and not unusual. I am sure there are very many good people like you who want the best for our country, but are now getting worn down by the ghastly brexit process. You probably want to get on with your life, or get your life back.

The Leave campaign had a good slogan "take back control". But what is now becoming clear to everyone is that we will be giving up control. The UK, even our MPs, do not seem to have control of this destructive process. The brexit bullies in the Tory party have a disproportionate influence over a PM who is trying to take control away from parliament.

Do you read any of the threads on thew News and Politics forum Bluegal? This thread might get better answers there.

Bluegal
I'm assuming from your post that you want to understand what it all means, yes?
If so, why don't you search it. But beware, it can become slightly addictive

bluegal

Actually voting to remain showed that you understood quite a lot I think, and showed a good deal of intelligence.

If you are interested just go on the Brexit thread and ask any question you like. We are all such geeks we will be thrilled to reply

I'm an economist and I do not understand it. (and I voted remain)

It is all very simple! 27 countries v 1 country, they win, we lose. Conservatives lose next election because nobody is happy with the 'deal', Labour win and say it was all the Tory's fault that we are in this mess.

Does it need further explanation?

Bluegal do not make the mistake of thinking other grans on here know enough about the Brexit process to tell you all about it......we are leaving that to the government to get the best deal we can.Those of us who voted Leave are happy about things, those who voted Remain are not, simple as that.Read up on the subject from all kinds of internet sources but not forums!

Er...thanks for that Lemongrove. Forums aren't the best place to ask?

I was kind of hoping someone on the forum could put it in simple terms that a simpleton could understand. Reading up on the subject, going on-line etc doesn't make it any clearer to me. Failing that...I am pleased to hear others feel the same way as me! Nobody really knows what it all means!!!

You are so right Bluegal so what would ever make anyone think this confusion is a good idea?

Well I think that is certainly true of the government.

Hence the farce that was the referendum. Cameron did not know what the heck to do about the EU who never listened to the needs of Britain and his members were getting restive, so he thought he would pass the buck by asking "the country" what to do, oblivious to the fact that, like you Bluegal, most of us were not in possession of sufficient information to make that decision.

So.......various factions who wanted to give Cameron a kick in the balls got together to become Brexiteers.

The real issues about the decision were never debated and it became a political game.

A referendum should not be party political; the public should be supplied with the necessary information, in the form of sources of impartial facts, to make a decision.

The complexities of either staying in or leaving the EU on so many fronts are really the realm of experts.

So don't feel bad Bluegal - you and the rest of the country!

Lemon, I think that Bluegal would feel happier if you told her what leavers like you are happy about.
It might help her.

durhamjen a disingenuous comment from you, and actually no, that wasn’t the question from the OP at all.
If Bluegal wants to understand what is happening re Brexit, she must follow the news as the rest of us do.
There is no simple explanation from anybody on here as to what will actually happen or what kind of deal we will get....until we get one!
The EU are happy to drag their feet and put off discussions as long as possible, they are also demanding huge amounts from us ‘up front’ to even talk about trade deals but the time will come from them ( since they need deals just as much as us) to get on with it.

Not at all disingenuous. I meant what I said.

Of course the EU don't want to give us what we want.
EU, 27 countries to the UK, 1.
WE are the ones who want to leave. Why should they make it easy for us.
THEY are getting on with it. May and Davis are not.
May and Davis have lied about the impact papers. Why did they do that if they wanted to get on with it, whatever it is, as was said in parliament today?

The EU do not want money up front but the agreement and promise of the monies OWED because we agreed this money at the time the budget was set.

Hollow laugh Welshwife ....we have to promise to give them eye watering amounts if not the actual money, which
Amounts to the same thing in the end and far more I bet than money we agreed to.
No durhamjen the EU are not getting on with it.

They are, lemon. They are having more meetings than they are with us. They are being kind to us because they are going to give Davis extra meetings, to get his act together.

Can you explain why Davis said there were position papers, then Davis said May hadn't read them, then it turned out there weren't any?
As you seem to know a lot about it.

Are you watching the debate today?

Manfred Weber, a key ally of Angela Merkel’s, has said that the UK must “clarify” what it will pay the EU when it leaves if it wants Brussels to open trade talks after December. Weber, a German MEP who leads the centre-right European People’s party (EPP) group in the European parliament, was speaking after he met Theresa May in Downing Street. He said:

When somebody is leaving the club then such a person or such a member state has to pay the open bill. That is what we are asking for - simply fairness, simply to do what you promised to do.

For the so-called sufficient progress question for the December council, the most important thing is not the figure. The most important thing is to clarify the commitments - the areas where Great Britain has to see its commitments.

Downing Street said May’s talks with Weber had been “constructive”.

Don't worry Bluegal none of our negotiators seem to know any more about it than we do.