BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

This is still your country too ( unless you decamp to Denmark.)

Not personal?
How many people would that be directed at?

jackofkent.com/2017/11/the-uncertainty-of-brexit/

Jack of Kent blog.
The EU are expecting the Ireland/UK border to be at the ports. There are lots of areas where Northern Ireland already has special rules because of the border anyway.

Which kind of defines a ‘personal’ remark Petra or did, when I last looked.
Referring to a group of people, cannot be personal.

GracesGran
I didn't notice lemon referring to anyone personally.

But there will still have to be a border somewhere if we leave, otherwise what is stopping the U.K. importing inferior goods and sliding them over the border in Ireland? It won’t work. Of even our own goods - being smuggled tariff free?

Northern Ireland is going to be allowed to stay in the customs union.

GracesGranM2 it is not a personal remark given that many Remainers both on GN and in RL seem to think we can stay in the single market and customs union etc when of course we can’t.
Your idea of personal remarks and mine differ.

"Brussels' chief Brexit negotiator has made the case for Northern Ireland remaining in the European Union customs union after Britain leaves the EU, to solve a deadlock in talks over the Irish border.

Michel Barnier said there were already over 100 areas where Northern Ireland implemented special rules to harmonise with the Republic and argued that Brexit called for a "specific solution" to "unique circumstances".

Speaking at a think-tank in Brussels the senior EU official said "those who wanted Brexit" must come up with solutions to solve the conundrums it had created."

If Northern Ireland can stay in the customs union, why not the rest of the UK?

Oh, I forgot, I want us to stay in the whole of the EU.

Well of course POGS but those who are even now resistant to leaving the EU do not want to think about that, and insist it can still be done.It can’t.

Back to just personal remarks again Lemons!

If you don’t distinguish between the two the single market makes no sense.

The model was always the intention, and recognition, that the more prosperous and expanding economies would pull in business and labour. The wealthier countries contributing to the whole to provide better business expansion opportunities for less well off members thus gradually expanding business and labour opportunities throughout the EU.

No one can deny that as a model it hasn’t been successful. What we can deny is that the euro has been a success story. But of course along with other stuff we opted out of joining that.

I will tell Angela, Donald and Jean Claude to stop using the term Free Movement of People and the 4 Pillars/Freedoms in the same breath when I see them next.

pogs it was always about labour and not people as I’m sure you know.

POGS
If things go pear shaped for Merkel, and it looks very much as if they could her opinions won't mean diddly squat.
The knives are out for her.

Well of course POGS but those who are even now resistant to leaving the EU do not want to think about that, and insist it can still be done.It can’t.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-border-michel-barnier-customs-union-ports-britain-a8064931.html

This is interesting, whitewave. Someone's thinking of Northern Ireland.

whitewave

Have you not heard Merkel and others such as Donald Tusk, Junker talk of Brexit and the Free Movement of People in the same breath?

news.sky.com/story/merkel-no-single-market-without-free-movement-for-eu-citizens-10723535

Ms Merkel told civil servants in Cologne that "cherry picking" by UK negotiators "would have fatal consequences" for the 27 states left in the EU.

"Britain is, for sure, an important partner with whom one would want to have good relations even after an exit from the EU," she said.

"(But) access to the single market is only possible under the condition of adherence to the four basic principles (movement of goods, capital, people, and services)."
-

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/17/angela-merkel-says-uk-will-pay-price-eu-immigration-restricted/

“If the British government ends the free movement of people, that will have its price in relations with Britain,” Mrs Merkel told a meeting of trade union officials in Berlin."

She did not mention Brexit in her prepared speech, only addressing the subject in answer to questions. But when she did her language was unusually blunt.

Mrs Merkel has been steadfast in her defence of freedom of movement throughout the Brexit process, describing it as one of the “pillars” of the EU and insisting the UK cannot have access to the single market if it seeks to limit EU immigration.

Already saying that lots of people will not be able to afford their five a day fruit and veg.

To my mind staying in the SM/CU is a no brainer.

If talks break down then the £ will fall again, with the upward pressure on prices. But if we come out of the SM/CU then we will have to add up to 25% in tariffs, greater transport costs etc.

Why on earth are we willing to accept that.?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-passporting-rights-banks-financial-services-michel-barnier-speech-talks-david-davis-a8064836.html

The people who work for him don't think that, whitewave. They think he is distinctly lazy, with little brain to speak of.

The trouble is that what they all seem to be intent on not focusing on is NI - that is the greatest difficulty, and one which has the potential to bring about the greatest disaster for its citizens.

Nobody has mentioned just what a seamless border actually means for the two countries, or perhaps they simply don’t understand.

To be honest dj and if I didn’t know any better, which I don’t, he had the appearance of an old soak. But I know nothing. So I assume his brain is always working at top speed

Yes, I would think lack of sleep is a distinct possibility when you have such important negotiations going on, or would you be as fresh as a daisy yourself?
Some seem to treat the negotiations with the EU as a mildly amusing episode on tv and cheer on the EU as if at a football match.
This is still your country too ( unless you decamp to Denmark.)

I am wondering now how this afternoons decision will go down with the Tory loons and indeed how long the decision will last. On previous experience 3-4 days at most. It must be driving Brussels around the bend.