Expectation that I will always pay

I think its awful for them not even to offer to buy a cup of coffee. We usually treat DD and family to meals as we have more money (DS has more than us!) But she always offers to pay her share and thanks us and says for example -well then I'll buy you a cup of tea later, so we let her. Dont want to hurt her pride.! As for asking you to remortgage -Im horrified! Just don't do it, as others have said.

DH is dear husban d, DD dear daughter etc. I dont know why the dear either but it seems to be the done thing here and on mumsnet. On the forums page at the top it says Active/Im on/watching etc and at the end is Acronyms. Click on that and all will be revealed!

Ladyinspain personally I hate these acronyms and never use them as for the dear or darling I find it a bit ridiculous especially if you’re complaining about them and bearing in mind DS can be darling son or darling sister and son in law and sister in law can get muddled
You don’t have to use them

But it helps if you understand what others have written ! It's a shortcut I think but I also dislike the dear/darlinng bit -so unnecessary. Also DD1 means eldest daughter DD2 second one etc. It took me ages to understand AC meant adult children and OH other half (not old husband!) DC stands for for your children and DGC for grandchildren etc. Other commonly used ones include AIBU (am I being unreasonable ) IMO (in my opinion) IYSWIM (If you see what I mean) etc.Hope that helps.I found it very confusing when I first joined GN (gransnet )

When I can afford it I pay. When I am broke and can't I just tell DS or DIL. But we have an honest and frank relationship, so it''s not difficult. It gives me more pleasure when I can pay than when I can't, I must admit. I'd love to be rich enough to be able to pay all the time!

Reading on further, I don't think I'd have the same attitude if I was being sponged of and with the evident future hopes of DS & DIL to literally act as vampires and suck me dry, by suggesting a re-mortgage on the house! There's a difference between meals and coffee and putting your house up for them. I don't know how old you are, but don't put your self in debt when you may need to pay a home help or a place in a residence... as I imagine DS & DIL won't offer to pay then any more than now. One shouldn't have to pay for the dubitative pleasure of seeing people, who ever they may be, IMHO!

Hello everyone. Thank you all so very much for taking time to respond to my post - I’m blown away with your concern - and indignance on my behalf! Thought I’d give you an update - my husband and I visited this weekend. As usual, we went out for breakfast and I queued and paid. It felt too uncomfortable to say anything. The next day was DIL birthday - so I took them out for brunch and told them it was birthday treat. They both spent most of weekend moaning about their lack of money. My DIL suggested I buy an investment property for them to rent “ we can pay your mortgage” said she! My son told me he had told his wife that anytime their baby needs new clothes “just ring mum, she loves treating DGS!” I kid you not. And the final insult was the sulking my husband and I had to endure as we hadn’t brought along some baby equipment to give them that we had bought for use in our house when DGS visits - they wanted it, had casually mentioned it a few weeks ago but nothing had been confirmed. So they made a big play of having to go out and buy their own ( high chair). The guilt I felt made me cry, truly. I felt so bad as I know they are not well off. But I wanted to keep baby chair at my house for visits - otherwise I’ll have had to buy another. I feel wretched today, guilty, upset, used and thoroughly fed up and over it all.

You have described your DS and DiL behaving very badly and selfishly this weekend.

Do Not Feel Guilty.

It's time for some straight talking with them, or at least for setting them straight when they make hints - "No, sorry, we got that to use at our house." " No, sorry, we don't want to take that on." etc

Emm I am so sorry for you.
Maybe the time is coming where somebody (you? DH?) has to sit down with your son and have a heart to heart. This atmosphere s not doing anybody any good and frankly your DIL comes across as a grasping, scheming individual. Do they both have jobs? (I may have missed that) Is there any specific reason why they are particularly hard up? (I did read about their extravagances) If it is just because they are feckless you will have to harden your hearts somehow - not easy. If they are keeping to a strict budget, of course things are different, but I suspect not.
Going out for breakfast sounds like one to bin right away - get there later in the day. Do lunch and choose your venue(2 for 1 offfers are so often available) If questioned just say chirping Oh money doesn’t grow on trees you know.
Whatever the coolness which may ensue, you must stick to your guns, at least you have each other for moral support.
Constant pleading poverty is very depressing and you may have to “act” jolly and breezy and deflect these unsubtle attempts to get you to part with more money.
Finally, regarding baby gear, IKEA do an excellent cheap high chair - everybody I know has one for their grandchildren and you could at a pinch get stuff from local mums’networks selling toys etc. I am NOT saying buy new for your DIL, but choose your battles. It may be that you offer a compromise, as in, “we can only buy you ONE out of .., which would you prefer? “ Do not fall for the “travel system”which usually costs as much as a small family car, by the way.
Good luck.

In dear emma
How does your DH respond to remarks made by your son and Dil?
It would seem that some how wires have been crossed
I think your son has somehow got it in to his head that you and your DH have a very deep purse!

I enjoy spending money on clothes for my grandchildren but if in the future I need to tighten my belt I would tell my children and would hope they understood.

I agree that you keep the highchair at your house for visits.
Our house resembled a nursery when the DGC were babies.
It saved parents dragging baby stuff backwards and forwards.

Do you think that you and your DH could show a united front and call a family conference.
Draw up a list of what you are prepared to spend money on.
E.g. Birthday, Christmas and some treats for DGC.
And a list which you definitely won't be providing .
E.g. Investment property.
Tell them that the finances are such that you have to consider that at sometime in the future you or your DH and maybe both will require funds for self care.
At the moment your son and wife are living and under an illusion 're your finances.
Unless you put your cards on the table this will not change.

Good luck

Yes the time has come for an honest discussion about this. If you don't deal with it now
Emm14 the misunderstandings and resentment will only get worse.

You are being 'guilted' into giving away a high chair? That is emotional blackmail, pure and simple!

Please forgive me if my post seems harsh, but from what you're now telling us, it sounds like you ARE being taking advantage of.

It appears from your posts that your adult son somehow feels entitled to your money anytime he needs it. You are expected to foot the bill for whatever he can't afford or is unwilling to pay for on his own. It doesn't help that his spouse may be immature and greedy.

Having a talk about all this would only sour your relationship because his bad habits didn't appear suddenly one day. The solution is a long term one and you will have to be patient but firm. You have to wean him off his dependency slowly but surely.

The following visit can be a home based meal. Your next visit, start breaking the mold. Mention you've had a lot of expenses this month, and let them foot the entire bill or at least half of it. Gift you grandson on birthdays and holidays only. Gifts can be thoughtful but they don't have to be extravagant or material (i.e. a day at the zoo). You will always be there for them, but emphasize your love, your time and your thoughtfulness and shy away from giving out too many material things, least of all money.

Steer away from conversations that have to do with your personal finances such as remortgaging your house, investing in rental properties etc. Change the subject and make it obvious that going forward, those topics are off limits.

The objective is to get your son and DIL to gain responsibility for their own financial independence and to make ends meet without your help.

"sometime in the future you or your DH and maybe both will require funds for self care."

And if there are no funds for that, DS and DiL will be called on to do the care for you.
That'll put the frighteners on them!

Next time your DS and DiL complain about having no money how about offering to take a look at their finances and offer to draw up a budget plan for them. It's something I'd do for a child who has just left home and was struggling. Your DS and Dil don't seem to be behaving like mature adults.
You do have my sympathy. I know how hard it is to say no but you have to put your foot down sometimes. Don't let them make you feel guilty--- be proud of yourself for standing up for yourself.
Good luck

"the sulking my husband and I had to endure"

If they want your help they should ask for it sensibly and should be grateful if it's given.
Instead they are acting like spoilt toddlers.

You "know they are not well off" but you also know they waste money on extravagances.

I'm a bit confused, I may have got this wrong, but I thought you said they won't travel to you as they can't afford it. However you mention that they do come on visits, hence the reason that you need the highchair at yours. Not sure exactly what happens, but I think you should perhaps talk to your son alone at first, and spell out how hurt and used you feel.

I assume you and your husband have discussed this money situation, and wondered what he suggests?

Hi seacliff. They have visited once in 6 months. I bought travel cot, high chair and baby bouncer for when they stay.

I’m afraid your DIL comes across as mercenary, selfish and greedy. Remortgage or buy an investment property for them? Definitely not. I suspect if you did, no rent would be forthcoming on the basis they were hard up. Unpleasant as it is likely to be, I think you need to clear the air by explaining to them (or just your son, if this is easier) that much as you love to see them, you will not, now or in the future, be financing their accommodation or providing unlimited clothing and baby equipment.

They are taking advantage and more importantly you are being a doormat. stop now. no big conference is needed. Just say we cant afford any longer. And please don't remortgage or give huge sums. just say savings have dropped..all tied up in isas..ned to watch whats left whatever...Of be asertive and say No. We don't want to. practice makes perfect. Sometimes we don't get the love we want from our children. they can be uncredibly selfish.

If your family travel to your house then you could pay for lunch. When mine visit me and we go to a cafe then I aways pay, I never thought anything about it.

When they were growing up money was tight and I now have more to spend and like spending it on them.
I even take lunch with me sometimes, they like my cooking.

So ladies, feeling upset and unsettled. My son rang earlier, told me he is ready to buy house and wants to know how much I will give him towards deposit. Expects me to remortgage - and explained how it works! I told him I’m not doing it - my intention was to help him in future when we downsize and have equity in bank. He was surprised and disappointed and reminded me I told him I would help him to buy house. He feels I’ve gone back on my word. I feel so sad, upset, ‘boundary violated’ and absolute contempt for his wife who I know is pushing for this. I feel like cutting them both out of my life but my DGS, how could I live without him in my life? My husband shocked and upset too

I understand how you feel Emm14, I think its important you have a face to face chat about the situation now.
I think its unfair to place most of the blame with your daughter in law, surely your son has some say in all this.
Cutting them out of your life is a drastic measure, try talking honestly to them and reach a compromise.

Thank you sodapop I will. It all so very wrong and unfair.

Emm14 I think this is the end game in a very long process. Have you always given your children everything they wanted so that they have grown up assuming that Mum/ Mum & Dad will always be there and ready to put their hand in their pocket to satisfy their every need?

I also think your son and wife's poor and extravagant spending pattern rests on their belief that you will always bail them out and, anyway, if they can afford those things you listed, shortage of cash is a personal choice, not forced on them by a limited income and they should get their act in order and put essentials first.

You are now going to have to wean your children very gently off their belief that you are a bottomless pit of money that will always sort out their every money problem. You have made a good start, you have refused to remortgage your house and you have refused to give them the high chair you keep at home. Don't be tearful, you are merely coming to your senses and doing something you should have done a long time ago. Your children need to grow up and function like the independent mature people they are meant to be.

Next time you see them just say that you are tired of eating out and would prefer to eat at home. If they want to take you out then they pay. Just gradually cut back your largesse and they will gradually learn not to expect it. There will be upsets on the way, but the habits of a lifetime are not easily changed.

Love that has to be bought with money is not real love. Your children should love you for all you have done for them in the past, not because you buy them meals and underpin them financially.

"...^He feels I’ve gone back on my word^..."

Back on your word?! ......I'll wager that it's HIS word you're going back on! Do not allow yourself to be used or to be manipulated into doing anything that goes against your own best interests.

Let them both know that they've been under a mistaken impression or perhaps there's been a grave misunderstanding. Tell them unequivocally that such an arrangement does NOT work for you, and that is why it's not going to happen.

Why? Because... "mortgaging our home would hurt our finances very badly" (no more explanations needed).