Is she too old to drive? Pensioner crashes into a marquee at a flower show and causes a terrorist alert?

I agree with you Jalima - I used to drive a Berlingo van in France, with manual gears etc, and find the transition to automatic strange.
Husband likes it though.

DH likes an automatic

Crashed into marquee...yes, not fit to drive.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that dementia did not seem to be the problem in this specific case. I just feel we are to quick to label dementia as a cause, whenever an older person does something stupid. We wouldn't have suggested it if she had been 25 or 45.

Otherwise, yes of course, dementia affects ability to drive and those with the diagnosis should have their license cancelled, as indeed it is these days.

Many people drive too fast for actual road conditions and certainly too close to the car in front. Many of these are the ones who complain about slower, older drivers being in their way. Unless in walking distance of good public transport life without a car must be like house arrest. I dislike talk of confiscating car keys, except in cases of dementia.

I love my automatic but still drive my husbands car fairly frequent so have to get my head ‘in gear’ to remember which is which! DH’s car has a button brake Jalima and I hate it on hills, I’m terrified of rolling backwards.
Fennel let us know how you get on with the assessment, I’m thinking maybe I’ll have one when I reach 70, good to have an update.
IMO codfather isn’t that old! He also seems to think that we are all saying that old people shouldn’t drive, we are only saying that older people should question their abilities.
As of course should anyone.

Not all people living with a dementia diagnosis will have their licence taken away.

No, but the GP or clinic diagnosing is legally obligated to report them to DVLA who will call them in for an assessment and driving test.

This happened to my uncle after his diagnosis and after assessment his licence was withdrawn. Meanwhile, his wife with, then, undiagnosed dementia kept driving.

On balance she was the worst driver!

The cost of ongoing learning would put most over 70's out of the possibility of driving. My car is 11 years old, I cannot afford a new one. I am 79 this year and have just spent 3 months driving my friend around as she had broken her arm. Never any points or any accidents, touch wood, my friend is 83 and is exactly the same. She had a speeding ticked for doing 34 in a 30 mile limit, ON CHRISTMAS DAY. There was no traffic about at all.

Or ask their gp/memory team for an assessment, MOnica.

And this demonstrates why ongoing assessment is a good idea.

We tried to get an assessment done, but the GP wasn't interested, even though she knew darn well what the problem was and recognised the symptoms.

If ever i felt unsafe driving my car i would give up, i would hate to think that i injured or killed someone. I envisage that when i reach my 70's that this may happen, or even earlier as i have two cataracts.It doesn't concern me as i will use buses or taxis if necessary. The money i spend on running the car would pay for the taxi and my piece of mind. Yes, it is loss of independence but so would going to prison for killing someone be loss of independence.

The cost of ongoing learning would put most over 70's out of the possibility of driving. If you cant afford to upkeep a risky skill then you can't afford to do it. However I dont agree with the assumption that ongoing learning needs to be expensive, there are plenty of apps and websites or ask a friend/relative to go with you on a drive and suggest some points for improvement.

Not having had an accident yet does not mean you're a good driver. One of the worst drivers I know says that all the time, truth is that the drivers around them are the good drivers because their quick thinking mitigates all the near misses that this "good" driver causes.

I've thought like that too, travelsfar. Especially as I mentioned we have excellent public transport and have free bus passes.
But I can't see husband giving up so easily.

This app is free and gives you feedback on your driving

www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/road-safety/using-the-aviva-drive-app/

A one off driving refresher/feedback lesson costs about £40 which in the context of running a car, isnt a lot! Especially since better driving saves on fuel!

A printable peer feedback form could also work.

Everyone should have to "self declare" that they have done some ongoing learning every year to keep their licence. Then in the event of an accident or incident should have to produce the evidence of the learning that they previously self declared.

Sure some people would fake their learning evidence, but it would change attitudes towards the skill IMO

I had driving lessons after a long gap of not driving because I lived in a city centre. I didn't have to, I had a full licence, I coulda got straight back behind the wheel after a long long break, but I don't think people SHOULD just because they can.

But even without a gap, bad habits that you don't notice yourself slip in.

If you wait until you REALISE yourself without 3rd party feedback that you're a bad driver, then you're essentially waiting until you crash because people are not that good at subjectively critiquing themselves.

Some of the worst drivers around are the most cocky/confident ones. So don't wait until you think you need a refresher to have one!

Just because its not REQUIRED doesn't mean its not a good idea!

We have a manual car and an inherited little automatic from my DM. I often wish that reverse in the automatic wasn’t in the same place as first in the manual. Luckily I haven’t yet actually driven away in the wrong direction!

I did a police driving course a few years ago and it was very interesting and I learnt a lot (I did from the Driving Awareness Course too!), but it doesn’t solve the problem of first and reverse being in the same place in auto and manual cars.

I drive an automatic purely because my car only came as an auto as did it's predecessor as many cars with large engines do. they are simple to drive as your feet don't need to coordinate with your hands as there is no clutch. Apart from that controls are the same. I think they can be easier for people as they age, even with my knackered knees I can still drive competently which I wouldn't be able to do in a manual. We all deteriorate with age but that age is so variable. I think eye tests should be mandatory every two years from 50 onwards at the very least. Hearing doesn't restrict driving, lots of deaf people manage just fine. I think declaring you're fit to drive after 70 should be signed off by your GP as lots of medications severely impact driving and your Gp should have to conduct simple tests before giving the thumbs up to continuing to drive.

yes that is true, but it could make people more aware that switching to an automatic is a new SKILL, not the same skill with less faff.

I love driving automatics, it helps with my spinal problems, my hips don't like manuals, but you have to be actively aware of the differences.

There's also pass-plus courses which apparently help you get money off your insurance. I would like to do that some time.

The winters snow really showed up how habitual drivers DON'T have an awareness of their own skill gaps/learning needs, with people getting in their cars without refreshing their snow driving skills (easily done via youtube etc)

you can't keep your licence to fly small aircraft without ongoing learning.

And I happen to believe that people should not be allowed to take to waterways without a basic certificate/licence.

I might be a bit of a kill joy but since people are NOT taking responsibility for upkeeping their own skills, more boring rules might be necessary

Lots of people say they would stop driving the minute they felt unsafe. I think the problem is people don’t realise, they think they are ok, based on having no accidents, when in many cases they are not driving well or safely at all.

I know of 2 people late 80s and early 90s one who has dementia and both still driving. Their children agree that they should not be driving as both are unsafe but refuse to do anything.

We had 2 similar incidents locally too humptydumpty. Do you live on the coast of North Wales by any chance? We took my dad’s car keys off him. We knew he was starting with dementia before he was even diagnosed. We told him it was either that or we’d report him to the police/dvla. He reluctantly handed them over. Our reasoning was why wait until someone’s killed or injured. I wouldn’t hesitate to take anyone’s keys off them if I felt they weren’t safe. I’d have felt so guilty if he killed someone knowing his driving was poor let alone how the driver would feel. I hope I’ll have enough awareness of my own driving when it comes to the crunch! (Scuse the pun!) ??