Ambulance waiting times.

It is interesting to note that countries are happy to use provision by ' Private' companies whereas here ' to some ' it is a diabolical act.

Indeed one major political party has said it will stop any use of ' Private ' health care and I may be alone in thinking I am happy for both systems but the funding and profit needs to be looked at and ask why it obviously works well in other countries.

felice

Thank you very much for your reply.

"If you are on a very low income or anykind of benefits, you are registered with the VIPO system, then like me you would pay 5€ for a consultation."

Do you pay 5€ every time you have a consultation or just once?
--

" All prices are set by the state no matter which doctor, hospital you use."

Is the price set for anything from a cut to brain tumour?
----

"Most areas, Communes have local hospitals 2 here they all have A&E and ambulances, so you would be taken to the hospital closest to you."

That sounds excellent but may I ask if you still have to be transferred to ' Specialist ' hospitals/units or are they so good they can deal with a cut to a brain tumour.?
---

"Anyone will be treated regardless of financial position my X never ever registered for health insurance after the divorce and when he had a massive epileptic siezure he was treated immediatly and very well.
I know he had to pay for that and had the cheeck to moan about it and even ask me to pay."

Hmmm. So you will get treated for a cut to a brain tumour but if you have no insurance or not receiving benefit you have to pay for all of your treatment whether it be a cut or a brain tumour , is that correct.?
-

I think the hospital food situation certainly makes sense and I think our NHS could save a hell of a lot of money following suit. It is a hospital not a hotel and the food sounds of good quality.
---

"Depending on your circumstances there are top up fees for hospital stays this is means tested so if you can't pay you don't, if you can then most people are very glad to, it is not much.
A lot of employers here pay for their workers health insurance."

I am confused on why ' top up fees ' are required I thought insurance covered the cost. What are ' top up fees ' for, medication , food what please ?
---

" I hope some of this helps sorry if it is a bit disjointed DGS is helping me to cook for a friends birthday party, sausage rolls."

I hope you had a lovely party and fun cooking . Once again may I tank you for your time. I am genuinely interested as I think our NHS , which by the way has been marvellous to myself and family, is in serious need of thought as to it's future and the only way to try and understand what is best is to understand how other countries work given there seems to be no complaint coming from the citizens in other countries whereas here it seems all we hear are complaints.

Very interesting to read your comments and the comparisons in different parts of the world.
I am an expat living in Canada. Health services here are publicly funded and privately delivered. The health insurance plan is operated by each individual Province/ Territory within Federal Government guidelines to provide universal health care to citizens. Coverage is universal regardless of income level.
I recently broke my leg and called an ambulance. Obviously I was not coded as high priority but the ambulance arrived within 5 or 10 minutes and the cost to me was the equivalent 47 Pounds The service is 90% covered by the Province and by 100% for people on income assistance so my bill was only 10% of the real cost.
I do believe that contributing to the provision of an emergency ambulance inhibits the abuse of the service.
After treatment in the emergency department me + plaster cast+ purchased crutches took a cab home before returning for surgery 2 days later!

I had a very bad Asthma attack a couple of weeks ago - I had had a course of steroid tablets from the doctor, but then the Asthma became worse again a couple of days after the tablets had finished.

My husband rang 111, and the operator spoke to me on the 'phone - I was gasping and wheezing, so couldn't say a lot. He said he'd send a Paramedic - an ambulance with 3 Paramedics arrived (1 experienced, 2 training) about 40 minutes later, and they were brilliant. Very thorough, they checked everything, and they were at my house for 2 hours!

I wonder if going through the 111 system is quicker?

We live in a rural area, but an ambulance was with us within 15 minutes (Called by 111) when I had severe pain in chest / upper abdomen.
They swiftly administered much welcome entonox after doing checks and took me into A&E at nearest town.
There I sat on a trolley for more than 5 hours as it was a busy Saturday night. I couldn't sleep as the pain became unbearable if I stopped doing the deep breathing. Once in a cubicle I was diagnosed with gallstones and given IV morphine.
No special treatment for being a cancer patient.

I have read all of the above with immense interest and great agitation, the NHS is my soap box theme. I retired from the service 3 years ago and since then I have wanted to use social media in some way to highlight the continued abuse of this amazing service, not only the abuse from without but also from within; and to stop using health and education as political pawns.

I use the word abuse guardedly in this day and age, but can find no other one that best suits what is going on.

We will all be devastated when we lose what is one of our greatest assets, but without some sort of Whistleblower Authority picking up on all the structural and management failures of the service, and saving money; without service users understanding why systems are put in place and learning to support rather than complain, I fear that is where we are heading.

My job enabled insight in to so much of what goes wrong and all that is good. I am completely frustrated at my own impotence and inability to have the capacity and knowledge to stand up and shout. To cause some sort of national rumpus that will raise awareness and initiate action.

I once bemoaned to someone of importance, how frustrated I felt at the money being wasted on a particular task. The response was that savings would be just a small amount in the grand scheme of things. Savings would have been thousands, and yes, just fractions in the overall but I was always taught to look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. There are billions of pounds to be saved if we could just find a way to start a national campaign to look after the pennies.

No problem.
Here goes;
If you are on a very low income or anykind of benefits, you are registered with the VIPO system, then like me you would pay 5€ for a consultation. There are also Polyclinics here which can be used by refugees etc,, we have thousands here all wanting to go to the UK.

All prices are set by the state no matter which doctor, hospital you use.

Most areas, Communes have local hospitals 2 here they all have A&E and ambulances, so you would be taken to the hospital closest to you. There is one just 10 minutes walk from me where DGS was born and I have had 2 small operations there. It is a state hospital and the service was excellent.
I chose the one i am going to for this op as my Cardiologist is based there and it is where I had the heart op.
Anyone will be treated regardless of financial position my X never ever registered for health insurance after the divorce and when he had a massive epileptic siezure he was treated immediatly and very well.
I know he had to pay for that and had the cheeck to moan about it and even ask me to pay.

The food is great, different every day, not boring at all, fish on Friday and even steak(cooked to your taste) on saturday or sunday.
On Sunday morning croissants, and the evening meal of salad is always different, last time I was 3 weeks and never got the same twice.
I am a Chef and know that Hospital jobs are in demand.
Depending on your circumstances there are top up fees for hospital stays this is means tested so if you can't pay you don't, if you can then most people are very glad to, it is not much.
A lot of employers here pay for their workers health insurance.

I had a bad fall 9 years ago, dislocated my shoulder, split the bone vertically and knocked two small pieces of bone out of the done at the top of my arm. DD called an ambulance, equivalent of 999. arived with a doctor within 7 minutes, I was taken to the local hospital 4 mins by ambulance, 11.00pm, within an hour i had been xrayed and saw the on call Orthopeadic specialist.
It was a Friday night.
Of course you can wait longer but you will be assessed immediately and you will see a specialist if required.

There is no difference in costs in Private or state, in fact it is hard to tell the difference in the hospitals.

All hospitals have specialists in each category, inc MRI scanners etc.
You may be sent to another hospital in the group if your consultant thinks it is required.

One little anecdote, when i was having my heart op, I had an angiogram 3 days before, I was told to say in bed that night so needed a bedpan. i rang my bell and the doctor on duty on the floor that night arrived. I explained and asked for a nurse. A couple of minutes later he re-appeared with bedpan and a toilet roll.
Told me to ring when I was finished. he was absolutely gorgeous and I was mortified.
He just said the nurses were busy so he did it himself.

I hope some of this helps sorry if it is a bit disjointed DGS is helping me to cook for a friends birthday party, sausage rolls.

felice

Thank you for your reply .

If I may can I ask a few questions which are of interest to me and certainly not intended to be sniping or having any underlying reason/tone but sometimes this method of questioning is open to misinterpretation.

" There are also different Hospitals, some private and some state."

As here in the UK but I would be correct to assume more private hospitals? Also how do the State Hospitals compare with Private Hospitals in general e.g for care, number of nurses, wage comparisons , ability to attend from a cut to a brain tumour operation etc.?
-
" The costs are set by the state so it's your choice the standards are all good."

So is there a flat rate of paying either to State or Private Hospitals ? Is there not a variance in how much any citizen pays for Private Health care e.g the more Private insurance you pay the quality of the Private Hospital standard improves? How does the State collect the payment from the citizens, presumably not through our system of National Insurance but maybe something of a similar ilk?
----

" You don't pay, the health insurance does."

Surely it is the case that you do pay but insurance means at the time of need you don't but is there never a query or top amount an insurance will not pay? E.G if you have a brain tumour here you know you will incur no cost , so would that apply in Belgium or are there cases where the insurance payment does not cover all illnesses?
----
"Health insurance works like this for GPs, you choose a GP again they are all self-employed. you pay up to a maximum of 35€ for a consultation. Your GP gives you a receipt which you give to your health insurers who refund it to you.
I pay just 5€ as I am registered disabled and they want to encourage people to attend GPs."

What happens to those who cannot raise the 35 euros ? Is that 35 euros for each and every visit? Do you then have to pay on top of that for medication/prescriptions etc.?
----

"One thing which saves money here is on food, there is no menu ". " everyone gets the same unless the dietician says otherwise,or you have reasons for not eating that days main.s". " No tea or coffee and biscuits during the day, plenty of water provided "

This sounds a tad boring but certainly cost effective! As you say a money saver and the NHS could look at that but no doubt some would be up-in-arms.
-----

If you call an ambulance do you have one contact number or can you contact a State/ Private hospital of your choice?. Or is it like here the ambulance service decide which hospital holds the best / relevant service for the particular call out e.g if I had a heart attack I would go to a hospital that has the best facility from the start hopefully.
----

Is it a requirement to pay into the system ? Do you have to pay into both a State and a Private insurance , how does the funding work ?
---

What happens to those who cannot afford either to buy insurance , Private or State?. What happens to those who cannot afford the 35 euros? Is there such a thing as no cover no ambulance or hospital?
--

A long list but I hope you can find time to answer as I repeat a genuinely interested questioner here. Thank you.

I was told by an acquaintance that he rang for an ambulance for his wife (in her early seventies) as her blood pressure was elevated.

I asked why he didn't drive her in to A and E if he was concerned and he said he was worried about her passing out.

They had to wait five hours for an ambulance. He didn't go to the hospital with her as it was by now in the early hours of the morning and he was tired (he is mid-fifties)...... When his wife arrived in hospital she had to wait another three hours to be seen - and was then sent straight home, all of which I feel, serves them right!

What an abuse of the service. Until this type of thing (plus of course misuse by those taking drink or drugs) stops, matters can only deteriorate.

Here in Belguim health care is part state funded and part insurance.
There are also different Hospitals, some private and some state. The costs are set by the state so it's your choice the standards are all good. You don't pay, the health insurance does.
Health insurance works like this for GPs, you choose a GP again they are all self-employed. you pay up to a maximum of 35€ for a consultation. Your GP gives you a receipt which you give to your health insurers who refund it to you.
I pay just 5€ as I am registered disabled and they want to encourage people to attend GPs.
One thing which saves money here is on food, there is no menu as such, breakfast is continental, bread, cheese, jam, spread and a yoghurt. Lunch is the main meal, 3 or 4 courses depending on the Hospital, the one I am going to this time is 4. Homemade soup, salad, maincourse everyone gets the same unless the dietician says otherwise,or you have reasons for not eating that days main. Dessert and a piece of fruit, tea or coffee. Evening is a mixed salad, cold meat perhaps plus bread and fruit.
No tea or coffee and biscuits during the day, plenty of water provided and I usually get friends to bring me fruit juice.
All meals are monitored and how much you have eaten is written on a card so your doctor can see and check on your appetite. You can ask for less food or extra food depending on your appetite.
Must save a lot on waste and be a lot cheaper.

Not just ambulance crews, but also police waste a lot of time because of the lack of mental health and social care. A friend is a policeman in Manchester. He says that very often a whole shift can be taken up by dealing with situations caused by alcoholics, drug addicts, or people with mental health problems causing disruption of various kinds.

He finds it very frustrating that dealing with crime often has to take a back seat, especially when he knows that they will probably be called out to the same houses or people time after time.

The thing with "time wasters" is that IMO they fall into 2 categories for the most part:

A. People who genuinely dont know whether or not the incident is an emergency. These people are correct to defer to to professionals.

2: people who shouldnt really be calling emergencie services, but the services that they should be deferring to instead are too overstretched to deal with their issues..so

Either way, most "time wasters" aren't really wrong to be "time wasting"

I live on my own & earlier this year I realised I was sinking into a Diabetic Hypo, rang 111 who took my details & arranged a speedy return call. The lady stayed on the line with me whilst we tried out various things to bring my Blood Sugar back up, in the end she said I will have to send an Ambulance, there was going to be a wait but as I felt ok I didn't mind. I was advised to ring again if condition worsened.

As I live on my own I unlocked my front door & put outside light on. Ambulance crew turned up about 3 hours after my call back, they then proceeded to make me a sweet coffee & beans on toast, unfortunately Blood Sugars wouldn't come up to normal so as I live on my own they took me to Hospital. I cannot fault the treatment I had & Hospital staff were brilliant.

I was discharged at 7am, 4 hours after reaching Hospital.

I do get annoyed at timewasters, I didn't want to go to Hospital but the risk to my Health meant I had to. Too many people now with Mental Illness not being treated properly due to lack of resources is another problem.

Money plays huge part of it and it's been wasted on many things that shouldn't be spent on.

I've had 3 fairly recent experiences with ambulances one which took a long time, for my 93 year old mother when she had a fall and a relatively minor injury but needed to be checked out. And 2 which were quick and immediate responses, 1 for my GS when he had a violent asthma attack in the night and 1 for my mother when she fell and broke her pelvis. The advice and the care given by the telephone operators in both the real emergencies was first class and very helpful. The care given by the Ambulance crews was incredible. They were not only professional and able they managed to comfort my GS and they shared jokes with my mum. How they manage to do this given some of the difficulties they must encounter I don't know. Mum spent over 9 hours in A&E (it was a complicated diagnosis) and I watched the people around us. How the staff managed I don't know. They had every sort of problem you can imagine to deal with, from physical injuries to mental health problems. One woman with dementia screamed every time they tried to examine her. There were people in police custody and attempted suicides being treated. More funding for the NHS would be great and I would certainly not mind paying more tax towards it, but the people who work in it are real heroes every day.

I have called them for someone who wasnt breathing properly: They were minutes. I have called them for injuries for conscious and breathing people and they were hours.

The waiting times do vary depending on how they are triaged.

It's not a perfect system and sometimes its wrong as per examples here (I dont know how anyone does that job: assessing by phone alone how able or not people are to wait!) but the people who give up waiting and end up going by car are probably the more able to wait people on the job list.

Its also worth bearing in mind that not all ambulances are emergency ambulances. So when you see them lined up they are not necessarily the same fleet or crew type that would attend a heart attack etc

There are NHS cut backs without doubt BUT it’s not helped by the public calling for ambulances when it is not an emergency. These services are there to help not to be abused

If you are in danger of death the chances are that you will get a ambulance within a reasonable timescale. The staff are in the main excellent but overstretched and hospitals underfunded. All this with houses popping up left right and centre in this area. Where is the planning?? How did we allow this to happend and why do we tolerate it?

I had a bad Ketoacedosis status a couple of days ago and needed to go to A&E as an emergency - We were asked if I could make my own way, as the waiting list was horrendous, but no-one in the family drives. Eventually after 3 hours a taxi was sent for me free of charge and I was taken to a hospital 10 miles away, even though there are 3 hospitals closer and have spent 3 days as an inpatient. Normally they are fantastic and no complaints, but the journey home today was pretty horrendous.

In the last 18 months I have had two unexplained episodes of loss of consciousness. OH rang 999 and they were there within 10 minutes apparently - I was unconscious so do not know! OH says he explained that I was unconscious, grey and sweating and they acted immediately. A first responder in a car arrived and put up a drip, then arranged an ambulance to take me into A&E. I was out for 40 minutes.

Mind you, the ambulance station is only 10 minutes away!

A&E was quite another story! I was looked after on a trolley in the corridor. I was conscious by then so slipped rapidly down the priority list!

This weekend one year ago to the day I had the first of two heart attacks. Paramedic on his own came in a car, cant remember how long I had to wait and he called for an ambulance to take me on the 35+ minute journey to our "nearest" hospital. As we waited, a fair amount of time, sorry again I cant remember, we heard the siren approaching my house. The radio the paramedic had then burst into life telling him it was being diverted to a GP's surgery in a village about 2 miles away for a cardiac arrest. I had been in pain for days and was quietly upset but the other person had a greater need. There is so much more I could say about what happened after this. The staff I encountered were all brilliant just not enough of them, not enough beds and not enough funding all round. It was dangerous not to mention dire!

NHS is abused. It is for people who are seriously ill and lots of other people use. If they checked whether people were entitled, but they wont, they could save money.

When i America or Canada you are asked for identification before you are treated.

When I had an emergency and was in agony, there were families in the waiting area playing on their phones with obviously nothing wrong with them or with something they could have dealt with at home.

Sadly I feel people have become to comfortable with the idea of ambulances and the idea they are as available as taxis to hospital rather than emergency vehicles for life and death emergencies.
This might sound harsh but if this was how they were viewed or even “sold”our perspective might change generally.

So should we adopt the French / Belgium system which sounds marvellous ?

Is the French / Belgium Health Care / Ambulance system based purely on private insurance or a mix of funding , I genuinely don't know.

Just throwing the question out there.

PS ...I forget to add that I actually WORKED in the NHS before I retired from the UK to France ........