Wearing a white poppy

a militaristic ceremony that actually many ex-service men from both world wars would neither choose to recognise or attend.
I disagree that they would not attend.

I am wondering how many WW1 ex service men choose not to attend.

I'm hoping my reply was hypothetical!! as my DF (WW1 and WW2) would be in the Guinness Book of Records were he still here and wished to attend.
And DFIL who gave his life so that we would have the freedom to declare our beliefs without fear of being incarcerated or worse.

I've noticed the changes which IMO have simply been the evolution of national pride and respect into something more 'entertaining' and I use that word reservedly but we do have to keep TV producers in a job!

For me it all began with the Falklands when wall to wall coverage brought the horrors into our living rooms. Who can forget the awful images of the ships? Until then Remembrance Day services were far more low key. Every conflict that followed is given as much press attention as is possible especially the heartbreaking scenes in Wootton Basset.

Wearing poppies in October would have been unheard of when I was attending military parades as a family member. I think it has gone too far.

Perhaps after this 100 year commemoration it will be scaled back merlotgran. I think this year is a particularly significant one where everyone is remembering and reflecting.

Yes jalima, I agree that this year has a special significance.

Indeed, the thrusting before our eyes of the ghastly conflicts around the world is not necessarily productive in any way. I think most people just switch off in order to stand the remotest chance of staying sane.

It is a problem with one of my GSs who gets very anxious indeed and we have to make sure the news is never on. I do feel a bit disturbed by the way that remembrance is part of the primary school curriculum - they are far too young to grasp the political nuances, and either get disturbed by what they hear, or just let it wash by them, like a film with fighting in.

merlot, it was a most peculiar time the Falklands conflict. I was on a train traveling to Newcastle and it was full of(mostly) young lads who were sailors. They were laughing and singing and larking around. It was a very odd experience.

We took two of our DGSs to Bressingham Gardens when they were 7 and 5. It has always been a favourite day out for us. The older one wouldn't go in the Dad's Army museum. As soon as he saw the uniforms and old fashioned rifles he backed off and I waited outside with him.

He's an adult now and when I reminded him about it he thought it must have been because he spent his early childhood in NI and although this was after the Good Friday agreement the grown-ups talked endlessly of the Troubles.

As a teenager he joined the RAF cadets and is now studying politics at uni with a view to working in foreign affairs.

More thought should be given to protecting children from situations where adults are unwittingly transmitting fear.

Last year I went to a Remembrance commemoration where Simon Weston read a piece and it was very thought-provoking and moving.
It does remind us that we don't want to see the like again.
It is politicians who start wars, not soldiers.

"Should you find yourself in danger, with your enemies at hand,
Would you want a politician with his ever-shifting stand?
Or would you prefer a soldier, who has sworn to defend
His home, his kin and Country and would fight until the end?"

vaincourt.homestead.com/common_soldier.html

Simon Weston to me is world class when it comes to having a great strength of character. What a man. He survived against all the odds with his sheer determination of the task that he'd been sent to do.
When he appears on television I see the man and not his wounds or disfigurement which goes for all those who were wounded in conflicts. Anyone who goes above and beyond for the love of their country gets my vote.

Jalima1108 - that is interesting. I am not sure that I fully understand what it is trying to say - I am not being funny here; just puzzled.

On the one hand it is saying that politicians are not to be trusted; whilst on the other (if I read this aright) he is talking about soldiers being there to defend his home etc. But to me the reality is that it is the politicians who dictate whom we should regard as enemies, and indeed in many instances turn them into our enemies by their policies.

trisher

" Do people really not understand Remembrance Day for me now is a militaristic ceremony that actually many ex-service men from both world wars would neither choose to recognise or attend."

I don't think 'people' do not understand your opinion of Remembrance Day or wearing poppies you have been extremely clear where you stand as usual.

The question is do you not understand ' other people' take a different view and simply are expressing their opinion too.

Nobody is right and nobody is wrong because we all hold an opinion but trying to ' tell/preach' those who hold a different opinion why only one opinion is the right one, their opinion, by using a sledge hammer is tantamount to passive aggression and given the emotive subject or Remembrance Day it is surely a subject to respect differences of opinion.

I have always watched the Remembrance Service /Concert which is broadcast live from the Royal Albert Hall and will do so this year.

Having Military Personal in the family and friends, their opinions are that it is a great honour to be part of any of the Remembrance Services and Parades.

I will watch the Royal Albert Hall service. The Cenotaph service and buy a red poppy. I will watch the lit beacons on our mountain range knowing several generations of my family have done so over the years and remember my maternal grandmother (who I never knew) , was a young war widow with three small children in WW1.

Anyone who goes above and beyond for the love of their country gets my vote

I think there must be something lacking in me because I just don't feel like that at all.

As a fellow human being I think he seems honourable and decent. But I can't get the idea of patriotism.

Luckygirl It is only part of the poem. I think the poet is Canadian and it was written in 1987 in frustration at the way that Canadian veterans were being treated by their government.

I don’t think there’s anything lacking, Oldbatty. I feel exactly the same, and I think it’s a completely valid point of view. Patriotism can so easily become nationalism, and that’s dangerous.

I've always felt like this, even as a child.

Yes - the patriotism/nationalism divide is a very thin.

I think kin is the key word there for me.

The young sailers who were singing, laughing and larking about despite/because of their involvement in the Falklands War, were probably little different from the young lads on the same train line going to fight in WW1.

This year is particularly significant in Remembrance for obvious reasons. Commemorating war in which many of our grandparents or great uncles fought and many died, doesn't seem to me to be supporting a militaristic view of the world. It's commemoration, its Remembrance, its reflection.

I don't claim to be a poet, but I wrote the following in 2014 after a similar discussion on GN:

Remembrance

A poppy red, a poppy white;
both a symbol of the fight
to bring us blessed days of peace
when all who war and fight may cease.

A poppy red, a symbol sad,
of an empty place, an absent dad,
a mother's tears, a wife's deep cry
a graveside vigil: why, oh, why?

A poppy white; 'peace, peace', the cry
another way we dare to try,
the poppy stands an emblem true
but peace can only start.........with you.

(and me!)

I think, though that the poem would give the lie to trisher's belief that Remembrance is now more militaristic - that poem was written 30 years ago by a WW2 veteran who said he was defending his home, his kin and his country.

And another:

Remembrance

Poppies line up in faded rows
Pinned to breasts that swell with pride.
Creaking limbs and crooked backs
Dusty comrades, side by side.

What is it that they remember
This dwindling crew, this ragged band?
Can they still dredge up the picture
Of events long past, of another land?

But every year they make their way
From faded mansions, council flats
With demob suits and Brylcremed hair
Regimental ties and breast-clutched hats.

And children at school in straggling groups
Are torn from lessons scuffling and yawning
To listen to the tale of slaughter
And have their turn to share the mourning.

And what is this remembrance for
When nothing changes? Can it make sense
For lists of dead and former carnage
To meddle with their innocence?

And here the great and good and rich
Stand in line just as they ought.
Lowered heads and furtive glances
Seeking the best camera shot.

But it is they who bear the guilt
Of taking new young men to war
To feign the image of true statesmen
And make their mark on history's score.

And all around the towns and hamlets
Is touted yearly “Lest we forget”
But it is clear we have forgotten
For nothing new has happened yet.