A Living will or Advanced Care Plan (for the elderly)

Ditto, FF. I did have a living will, but it won't be needed now that I have the P of A.

Having seen so much of dementia (my FiL as well as my mother) I wanted my (compos mentis) wishes made crystal clear for my family, since once dementia takes any kind of hold, people are apt to forget completely whatever they thought or wanted in the past.
And although it's not their fault, they can become extremely irrational/self centred and utterly fail to comprehend the stress and worry they are placing on their family.

I haven't got a living will because it's all covered by my POA and I can't see the point of having both.

However, it is a valid point that unless you have LPA for Health and Welfare your family do not have the power to make decisions on your behalf. I have seen a case where Social Servuces went over the head of a husband who was doing a good job of looking after a wife with dementia. She was removed from his care and only survived three weeks in the ‘care’ home.

A long complicated story involving a niece and poor care at the home.

Advanced Health Directives are not just for elderly people - everyone should have one. We never know what is around the corner, no matter what our age is.

Whether to accept more than palliative care is your business.

Whether to seee all your resources go to a care home or accept the inconvenience (if that is how they'd see it) of supporting you at home could be considered their business.

You are probably right M0nica, apologies if I've got it wrong.

I did not think this thread was about POAs, which I sorted out decades ago.

I thought this thread was about living wills and I was discussing why I wouldn't make one.

Our family have been reluctant to engage in a real discussion over our wishes, they say honestly they have no desire to think about our frailty and subsequent death. It seemed to us that a health POA was essential as was a finance POA which of course comes with less emotion. Both are done along with a letter assuring them we love and trust them and no matter how hard it may seem neither of us wish to be without dignity or independence or subjected to medical intervention just because its possible to do it. The letter is of course advisory but we think the detail included will be helpful for them. It helps that we trust them implicitly. I know its hard panache, everyone is different but I wonder if you consider it as a safety net for the future it may seem a little less difficult to do. I'm not sure why but I found thinking about it much harder than actually doing it.

oodles I believe MOn was referring only to medical decisions as was I

M0nica, as rizlett says its not enough to have told your family what you want because if there is no power of attorney they would have to go to the court of protection And this is more expensive, takes longer and they have the final word which might not be what you want
My in-laws left it too late, when finally I persuaded them to consider pos, cos I could see father in law was developing dementia, but no one else would acknowledge it, he was too far gone. Mil wouldn't consider the court of protection, so wasn't able to do what she wanted which was sell the house and move into a bungalow. Instead everything happened after a crisis, so much of their money was spent on the first person who could fit a starlight for example instead of being able to shop around and get the best deal, instead of being able to move she had an extension built which caused upset and took ages and cost a lot, so in the end they got 9 months use of it, and it didn't add a penny of value to it. In the end nil did start to apply to the court of protection but til died before it happened
So please do a pos so that you get what you want and spare your children potentially several years of angst

I do not want anybody being out of pocket financially if only temporarily so I have paid for my funeral in advance. I would prefer a hole in the ground somewhere but as that is not possible I will be bypassing a church and going straight to the crematorium.

I do not want to be two-faced having a full requiem mass etc when I have not been near a church since the nuns scared me off all of those years ago.

Like Monica we have discussed this over Sunday lunch. And my mother-in-law has made plans too. SHE is a step ahead of me in that regard as has created a very detailed file for it - complete with a photo of her favourite coffin (willow with a green floral band). Sometimes practicalities are easier to discuss than emotions around death and dying - but now everyone is at least clear.

Willow, that comment of your FIL’s re resuscitation is so sweet. Made me smile.

riz you’ve made a really important legal point that so many people don’t realise. The whole idea of next of kin, consent etc in the NHS is widely misunderstood by many patients and sadly many staff. Under English law ( don’t know about the other jurisdictions) there is no such legal thing as a next of kin whatever those badly drafted hospital forms say.

I have no family in this country so I have sorted out that two friends act as PoA for health and finances. I also did not want them the same age as myself for obvious reasons so one is many years younger.

I did not choose one friend who I have known since we were 11 because I have noticed that she is slowly losing her memory although she would not agree.

@MOnica I have talked this through with my children and if I am not in a state where I can make a decision, they will make one for me.

Unless your children have power of attorney they legally won't be allowed to make care decisions on your behalf. They will be included in any meeting that takes place about your care but they won't have the final say - that will be undertaken by an appointed advocate.

It's really important to sort out power of attorney for both health and finances as you get older to ensure your wishes are carried out.

As someone who has worked in this area I do think it is very important to discuss this with those who will be making the decisions on our behalf and/or to put our wishes in writing. In various jurisdictions it may be called a Medical Power of Attorney, an Advanced Care Directive, a Living Will or various other names.

I believe it is an act of love to those important to us to let them know what our wishes would be when crunch time comes rather than to ignor or deny the issue and just leave them with the burden of making decisions on our behalf in very difficult circumstances.

Somebody further up this thread described the subject as not something to be discussed over Sunday lunch.

I suspect we did discuss this subject over a meal. It is when we discuss most things.

Re: Witzend's comment on broken ribs during resuscitation...I read a really powerful book by Jennifer Worth ("In the midst of life") which looked at this very topic in detail. As one who would never watch "Call the Midwife" in a million years, I wasnt sure whether to read it, but it's a very well written, revealing work that makes you think. xx

Did my Living Will five years ago, and actively supporting Assisted Dying, too (poor Noel Conway.)

Thank you for that Witsend. We have also done our lasting power of attorney forms but will add what you have stated as an addendum. Well written.

Thank you for your frank discussion on a subject not generally raised, and although I do not yet have the information booklet from the age UK site Willow that is on my next to-do list.
Lots of food for thought.

I'm 34 and in reasonable shape, but DH has known for some years that if I have an unwitnessed arrest I don't want CPR. My rationale is that if the arrest wasn't witnessed there's no way to know how long I've been that way. I've cared for people who suffered brain injuries as a result of codes, either because their lungs were in poor shape or because they were brought back after having been in a full arrest for a long time. It's not a way I would want to live. I told him, if they see me go down, absolutely, do everything. In that case we know when it happened. But if they or he find me unresponsive with no pulse or breathing, just let me go.

I refuse to make any decisions about medical treatment I do or do not want, in future circumstances that are currently unknown.

I have talked this through with my children and if I am not in a state where I can make a decision, they will make one for me. They are entirely happy with this.

I think anything that records your wished as to how you want to be treated is a good idea. DH and I have discussed these issues a fair bit and whilst we both know how we feel about resuscitation and funeral arrangements our sons don't know such details (not a subject to be brought up at Sunday lunch). We are in he process of doing our Power of Attorney for health and finance and intend to tell our sons what it is we would like to happen to us including organ donation etc. I think it's a sensible option.