A Living will or Advanced Care Plan (for the elderly)

We've both just done our Powers of Attorney,for finances and Health and Welfare - the latter includes a section for any particular preferences.

Having seen far too much of dementia in all its stages, I feel very strongly about this, so here's what I put in mine.

'.1). In the event that I develop dementia, , or any other condition where I am unable both to care for myself and speak with capacity for myself, then with the exception of fractures, I do not want any interventions, whether surgical or medical, intended to,prolong my life or keep me alive when I would otherwise die. I ask for palliative care only.

2). In the event of my needing full time care because of dementia or any other reason, I do not want any of my family to have the burden of looking after me. I want to be placed in a good care home as soon as my care becomes at all difficult or stressful for family members.'

My dh has copied mine word for word.

Panache there is some information on the Age UK site although I think you've probably already got that. I do believe it's a good idea to make some wishes known in the event you're not in a position to pass this on. It's obviously a very difficult thing to contemplate but it does absolve a loved one having to make the decision. I had to do it for my mum having POE as she was unable to make any for herself at the end. When my FIL was asked if he wanted to be resuscitated he replied I wouldn't mind please

An ex next door neighbour, then in his mid or late 80s, was resuscitated after a second heart attack. He told me afterwards that the after effects were so painful (presumably cracked or broken ribs) that he wished they'd just let him die.
He did in fact die a few months later anyway.

After that, when I was asked in advance about resus. preferences for my mother (who had dementia), my answer was a very firm No thank you.

I think anything that records your wished as to how you want to be treated is a good idea. DH and I have discussed these issues a fair bit and whilst we both know how we feel about resuscitation and funeral arrangements our sons don't know such details (not a subject to be brought up at Sunday lunch). We are in he process of doing our Power of Attorney for health and finance and intend to tell our sons what it is we would like to happen to us including organ donation etc. I think it's a sensible option.

I refuse to make any decisions about medical treatment I do or do not want, in future circumstances that are currently unknown.

I have talked this through with my children and if I am not in a state where I can make a decision, they will make one for me. They are entirely happy with this.

I'm 34 and in reasonable shape, but DH has known for some years that if I have an unwitnessed arrest I don't want CPR. My rationale is that if the arrest wasn't witnessed there's no way to know how long I've been that way. I've cared for people who suffered brain injuries as a result of codes, either because their lungs were in poor shape or because they were brought back after having been in a full arrest for a long time. It's not a way I would want to live. I told him, if they see me go down, absolutely, do everything. In that case we know when it happened. But if they or he find me unresponsive with no pulse or breathing, just let me go.

Thank you for your frank discussion on a subject not generally raised, and although I do not yet have the information booklet from the age UK site Willow that is on my next to-do list.
Lots of food for thought.

Thank you for that Witsend. We have also done our lasting power of attorney forms but will add what you have stated as an addendum. Well written.

Did my Living Will five years ago, and actively supporting Assisted Dying, too (poor Noel Conway.)

Re: Witzend's comment on broken ribs during resuscitation...I read a really powerful book by Jennifer Worth ("In the midst of life") which looked at this very topic in detail. As one who would never watch "Call the Midwife" in a million years, I wasnt sure whether to read it, but it's a very well written, revealing work that makes you think. xx

Somebody further up this thread described the subject as not something to be discussed over Sunday lunch.

I suspect we did discuss this subject over a meal. It is when we discuss most things.

As someone who has worked in this area I do think it is very important to discuss this with those who will be making the decisions on our behalf and/or to put our wishes in writing. In various jurisdictions it may be called a Medical Power of Attorney, an Advanced Care Directive, a Living Will or various other names.

I believe it is an act of love to those important to us to let them know what our wishes would be when crunch time comes rather than to ignor or deny the issue and just leave them with the burden of making decisions on our behalf in very difficult circumstances.

@MOnica I have talked this through with my children and if I am not in a state where I can make a decision, they will make one for me.

Unless your children have power of attorney they legally won't be allowed to make care decisions on your behalf. They will be included in any meeting that takes place about your care but they won't have the final say - that will be undertaken by an appointed advocate.

It's really important to sort out power of attorney for both health and finances as you get older to ensure your wishes are carried out.

I have no family in this country so I have sorted out that two friends act as PoA for health and finances. I also did not want them the same age as myself for obvious reasons so one is many years younger.

I did not choose one friend who I have known since we were 11 because I have noticed that she is slowly losing her memory although she would not agree.

riz you’ve made a really important legal point that so many people don’t realise. The whole idea of next of kin, consent etc in the NHS is widely misunderstood by many patients and sadly many staff. Under English law ( don’t know about the other jurisdictions) there is no such legal thing as a next of kin whatever those badly drafted hospital forms say.

Willow, that comment of your FIL’s re resuscitation is so sweet. Made me smile.

Like Monica we have discussed this over Sunday lunch. And my mother-in-law has made plans too. SHE is a step ahead of me in that regard as has created a very detailed file for it - complete with a photo of her favourite coffin (willow with a green floral band). Sometimes practicalities are easier to discuss than emotions around death and dying - but now everyone is at least clear.

I do not want anybody being out of pocket financially if only temporarily so I have paid for my funeral in advance. I would prefer a hole in the ground somewhere but as that is not possible I will be bypassing a church and going straight to the crematorium.

I do not want to be two-faced having a full requiem mass etc when I have not been near a church since the nuns scared me off all of those years ago.

M0nica, as rizlett says its not enough to have told your family what you want because if there is no power of attorney they would have to go to the court of protection And this is more expensive, takes longer and they have the final word which might not be what you want
My in-laws left it too late, when finally I persuaded them to consider pos, cos I could see father in law was developing dementia, but no one else would acknowledge it, he was too far gone. Mil wouldn't consider the court of protection, so wasn't able to do what she wanted which was sell the house and move into a bungalow. Instead everything happened after a crisis, so much of their money was spent on the first person who could fit a starlight for example instead of being able to shop around and get the best deal, instead of being able to move she had an extension built which caused upset and took ages and cost a lot, so in the end they got 9 months use of it, and it didn't add a penny of value to it. In the end nil did start to apply to the court of protection but til died before it happened
So please do a pos so that you get what you want and spare your children potentially several years of angst

oodles I believe MOn was referring only to medical decisions as was I

Our family have been reluctant to engage in a real discussion over our wishes, they say honestly they have no desire to think about our frailty and subsequent death. It seemed to us that a health POA was essential as was a finance POA which of course comes with less emotion. Both are done along with a letter assuring them we love and trust them and no matter how hard it may seem neither of us wish to be without dignity or independence or subjected to medical intervention just because its possible to do it. The letter is of course advisory but we think the detail included will be helpful for them. It helps that we trust them implicitly. I know its hard panache, everyone is different but I wonder if you consider it as a safety net for the future it may seem a little less difficult to do. I'm not sure why but I found thinking about it much harder than actually doing it.

I did not think this thread was about POAs, which I sorted out decades ago.

I thought this thread was about living wills and I was discussing why I wouldn't make one.

You are probably right M0nica, apologies if I've got it wrong.

Whether to accept more than palliative care is your business.

Whether to seee all your resources go to a care home or accept the inconvenience (if that is how they'd see it) of supporting you at home could be considered their business.