Debenhams and other failing businesses

Popped into M&S for coffee today. Had a look at Per Una and remarked to the assistant that the clothes weren't getting any better. She seemed quite offended so I pointed out the cheap and nasty looking gold zip on a pair of trousers. She informed me that that was just my opinion and walked off. I followed her and told her that a lot of us feel the same. I was treated to a lecture about how "passionate" she is about the clothes and how hard they are working to "deliver" the latest range. I told her that she'd lost me at "deliver" and could we carry on without the jargon and she accused me of being offensive and walked of again. Not the sort of interaction with customers that I was taught when I worked there!

Surprisingly, my best shopping experiences have been with the "youth"shops. I have been very well served in JDSports and Sports Direct. Also Topshop
Could it be that these Stores enliven their assistants because of the trendy stuff they sell? If I was young, I wouldn't want to work in the Mum/Dad/Granny world of Deb. HoF et al. JL being the only exception; very good service but not really youth oriented. After saying this, 95% of of purchasing is online!

I do believe that we tend to see all 'service' jobs as not terribly important: retail assistants, waiting etc.
If the general public do not show they value these workers it becomes a vicious circle and the quality of service deteriorates. I had a job in an independent department store for a short while before I went to college.
I was trained, as a temp, to clean the glass display cases, how to greet customers, to offer advice & encourage additional purchases as well as the practicalities of the till and the whooshy vacuum system when we had to send the notes up to accounts! At the same store I also spent 4 weeks as a waitress in the in-store Kenya Coffee House. Again I was trained and supported to be a good waitress. I think big stores seem to see all their staff as temps but do not invest in them sufficiently to buy their loyalty!

Often the more senior staff are employed on good employment contracts being either full or part-time depending on their wishes. Those staff normally retain their terms and conditions due to historical factors that very often make it difficult for the employer to change those contracts.

However, new employees are often engaged on zero hour contracts or even employed through the Gig Economy which makes for very different working conditions and therefore interest in the job.

When an employer demonstrates little interest in its employees, is it any wonder that the employee demonstrates little interest in their employer or its customers.

The " older " staff members of past and present department stores were/are the most attentive and pleasing staff and were good for the business as people returned year after year.
Then came the explosion of younger ( disinterested ) staff who were there " for the money " only and had little interest in the customer or what he/she wanted. Followed by the demise of businesses because of a reduction in sales partly due to the internet but mainly due to the lack of wanting to sell leading to customer dissatisfaction.

I contacted my local supermarket and made a comment about the number of empty shelves. I received a reply from the manager asking which shelves were empty!! I suggested she take a walk around the store and find out for herself

I so agree with the OP!
On Friday morning I was watching Breakfast TV and there was a panel on there discussing the demise of the High Street following the dismal Christmas figures. All agreed that the only way forward was by concentrating on customer service.
So, I sallied forth onto my local high street. I was looking for a dress and so made an infrequent visit to our one remaining (hanging on by a thread!) department store.
Customer service??!! I hardly saw any! I wandered around, browsing for something ( I'm not usually a dress-wearer, so would have been glad of assistance). In one department, I gathered 6 dresses to try on, there were two assistants behind the desk chatting to each other, I was offered no assistance, had to trek over to them to ask if I could use the changing room and was just waved in the general direction. Nobody came to see how I was getting on or offer assistance.
In another department, I made a small purchase and the assistant managed to complete it without uttering one word or making eye contact! |It was so hot and I was getting so discouraged that I left after this.
As others have said, where are the managers? I fear there will be no other option than online soon.

Have to agree with others who have said that M&S staff will more often than not be faffing around on the shop floor, anything but man the till, Particularly surprised this can also be the case on their "20% long weekends" when they are busier than usual still queues at tills, our local branch does do that ring the bell behind the counter thing to summon a member of staff to open another till, but even that doesn't seem to rouse anyone sometimes It's a shame the company don't seem to correlate public dissatisfaction which I do believe they are aware of, with the downward trajectory in sales.

John Lewis in my nearby town are always pretty helpful, I do love it as a store it's one of my favourite go to places to shop. We don't have a Debenhams but whenever I go into one of their stores it does amaze me how they survive, by the skin of their teeth it seems, they've been pretty shambolic for years.

Yes do agree teifi about WH Smith, just diabolical, unhelpful staff, quite often there isn't anyone to help if the self service tills go wrong and interminable queues around "pile it high" displays of chocolate that nobody wants God forbid Waterstones ever disappears I'd hate to go to WH Smiths for my books.

Agree about WH Smith, how can these shops in prime positions selling such attractive, needed items do it SO badly? Staff always seem grumpy, allowing long queues to build. They insist on the use of horrible self-payment machines which don't work, even when there are staff standing around doing nothing. The cheaper stores, such as Primark, The Works & Wilco, seem do it so much better, with plenty of helpful staff & speedily dealt with queues at the till...

From a male perspective my views echo previous comments.

The demise of stores these days has seen the excuses of poor pound, Brexit, the internet etc., etc.

But as others have highlighted, stores do not help themselves with indifference by staff, invisible managers and poor customer service. I tend to give these places one chance, if they get it wrong and are apathetic in resolving problems, my money gets spent elsewhere.

Stores that have recently gone:

Toys R Us - monolithic stores, indifferent staff, high prices. They could not compete with the likes of Smyths Toys with decent size stores, friendly staff and prices comparable with online.

Maplin - Used to be a good store for component and gadget freaks, the along came high prices for chinese rubbish and indifferent staff with little technical knowledge. They tried to follow the Tandy model and looked what happened to them so many years ago.

More stores will follow for example HMV are struggling yet they had the opportunity 20+ years ago to be part of the internet revolution for music and films online but refused to be at the front of the pack saying it will never take off.

Has anyone been into WH Smiths in recent years? their stores to me always seem grubby with poor lighting. If it was not for the railway station and airport franchises they would have been long gone.

I have been saving up for new bedding and curtains so off I went today to Dunelm, which seems to be the main outlet now for Dorma, which I have always preferred, with £200 in my hot hand, well OK in my bank account. There on the main display bed in store was something that would have been perfect. But no stock to buy, a few king size duvet covers but no doubles and no curtains, so back home to check online stock - none available. Back in the 1970s when I worked for Habitat, showing something in a prominent display that you didn't have in stock was a waste of valuable display space, not to mention a waste of customer time trying to track the item down. But shops seem to do it a lot these days.

Just been to local M&S to collect some things ordered on line. Had to ring the bell for asssistant , as instructed. Boy, was she fed up. Didn't look at me at all. Hardly spoke. Gave me the parcel with bad grace and went. Not what I would have expected of M&S.

I've had issues with JL on line they are fine when things go well but gawd help you if things go wrong and you need assistance. They try extremely hard to wriggle out of their extended warranty. No thanks their are better suppliers out there.
I think the whole high street is going the same way due to excessive rent and rates coupled with so many of us shopping on line.

I haven't shopped in M&S for over a decade, I did use BHS for lighting and swimwear before their demise but I love my local Debenhams with their helpful staff, good atmosphere and range of stock I'd be sorry to see them go. I rarely shop in store these days due to disability but still use them on line. I've been made over a few times by the woman on the Ysl counter, she's a good laugh and doesn't complain when I say I love everything except the lipsticks, far too glossy for me.

John Lewis for me every time. Fabulous customer service when I had 3 pairs of curtains made before Christmas.

Staff are helpful and if it's not in stock, which happened to me on Tuesday it was delivered to my door free on Friday.

It is small compared to most JL's friendly, clean and efficient.

So it’s not just me. In one way that makes me feel better but n another it is so sad that there’s such a simple solution to these retail problems.

I have a smallish Sainsbury’s not far from me and a huge Tesco a couple of miles away. I’ll always shop at the smaller Sainsbury’s because the staff are so smiley and helpful and the Tesco staff four and sour. That’s not to say all Sainsbury’s are like this but it does come down to the individual store and the ethos built up by managers and staff towards their customers.

I agree lack of a manager or supervisors present on the shop floor is an issue in the same way as the looming figure of the Matron is no longer on the ward.
While the cats away the mice will play.

In the case of John Lewis
although it seems to depends on the luck of the draw if your store is good or not, the workers are also share holders so more motivated??

I feel the powers that be in the retail industry know that the days of the deparment store are numbered.

People now are shopping on line (including the 'grey' pound).
All investments will now be diverted to internet shopping. (Imho)
Large square footage means large rents, wage bills, utility bills etc.

Fashion/clothes industry is not losing out the customers are still there, just with a credit card and a 'thumb'

Shopping in the towns and cities has to be a planned experience.
Working parents are now very much time short, so shopping for food, clothes, makeup etc is done on the bus, train, office, lunch hour or when the children are in bed via the net.

Family time is precious and weekends are now seen as leisure time or for childrens activities.

The leisure and beauty industry is probably in top spot at the moment.

I have given up on our city centre Debenhams. Getting help to buy anything is a nightmare, staff are barely attentive when you do find one and last time we went into the household goods department, it was like a ghost town - I was expecting to see tumbleweed rolling by! Our John Lewis is just ok; I am disappointed to find that I cannot now telephone direct to our store, and that if I want to order anything by phone, I have to open an account! In their technical goods department there are not enough staff and certainly too few with the necessary expertise to advise you. But, I still go there - it is like retail gas and air! Don’t get me started on M&S. We have an independent department store here and I love it. It sells just about everything, quality is excellent and staff are brilliant. I used to go there with my mother when I was small and have been shopping there since. They have been in business for over a hundred years, always move with the times and seem to buck every retail downturn.

I'll go with you next time kittylester then perhaps we can find an assistant on the shoe counter and one that will get me more than one pair of shoes at a time. Also is there ever anyone on the Dior or Benefit counters?

I haven't been shopping in Liverpool for years------I don't think it matters now as I feel safer doing it online in the comfort of my home.

Bringing their prices down would be a good start !!

I think our John Lewis is fabulous Teetime. I have never had a bad experience there!

Last time I went to Debenhams I was pleasantly surprised at how well laid out it was and the staff were quite pleasant.

John Lewis!! Near us is terrible. They certainly lost huge sales when we went to buy curtains and carpets for our entire flat. The staff simply couldn't be bothered. We walked away and haven't been back. DD ordered some Hotel Chocolat from them to be delivered to me for a birthday gift. They arrived 3 months out of date! I had a huge palaver trying to get them to replace them. John Lewis? My least favourite shop!!

Yes, I agree it is lack of customer service that is killing some of these shops. Why trek all the way into town, either by almost non-existent public transport or pay huge parking fees, only to be met with indifference from staff in the stores? Much easier to stay at home and order online.

I went to Liverpool yesterday quite prepared to 'treat' myself. Debenhams was like a jumble sale, John Lewis wasn't much better and M&S was awful. All I bought was a pair of gloves in the M&S sale.

We did treat ourselves to a Lebanese lunch which was good. My husband had a spicy chip butty, a funny combination of cultures!