Short lived relationships & resulting babies

A friend's stepson is due to become a father soon, to two babies. Not twins but single babies with two different mothers! I didn't know what to say to my friend.

Good post JaneA ??

About 20 years ago I was teaching a young woman with a small child. I admired how she was keen to better herself and look after her son and did all I could to assist her. She got a few hours a week work at the Adult Education Centre and was making progress. I met her again when her son was about 12 and to my horror she announced she was pregnant again, with no father in sight. She said her son would be a dad to the baby. What a total waste she was on the brink of being able to start a meaningful career and she had given it all up.

My views were not accepted by some of my more pc colleagues !

You have put this well janeainsworth there are mixed messages.
My DGDs were being loving and sisterly one day and one announced that they would always live together. They would marry eachother - girls can you know!
Yes well, maybe not yet anyway.

Jane I just Googled the figures and, according to the BBC 40% of pregnancies are unplanned. I don't think it was that high 50 years ago.

I think casual sex is much more common than it used to be which could be one reason. DH didn't even kiss me on our first date. I also think that having a child without a partner is no longer the deterrent it was. No one is shocked by it anymore.

I do think it is very sad when someone has an unplanned pregnancy when it has never been easier to avoid it. It probably reduces the life chances of parent and child.

I think that the more generations that grow up in single parent homes the more it becomes the norm. For many it is fine but for many it is a vey limited experience.
That is why I said it needed radical change to attitudes. I agree with JaneA about " mixed messages" . Which is why I feel the one clear message needs to be about a child's need to be loved and cared for responsibly, and all that entails, being paramount. I reckon it could be done in a couple of generations if there was a will to see it happen.

Nonnie we have to remember of course that unplanned pregnancies don’t necessarily result in an unwanted child, or a child born to a short-lived relationship.
I think there’s no way of knowing really, how many pregnancies are unplanned, then or now. I agree with you that birth control has never been easier or more readily available.
PECS I think that applies to many things - that something becomes more common and then more acceptable. Drug taking, for example. It doesn’t mean though that the process has been thought through, and all the consequences, intentional and unintentional, have been recognised and warned against.
I agree with you that the message now needs to be about the needs of the child, not the potential parents.

I agree Jane so many statistics are only really a vague idea. Those in a stable relationship who have unplanned pregnancies are unlikely to come up in the statistics too. However, whatever the reason, I believe there are lot more single parent households now.

Couldn't agree more. Unwanted pregnancy is not a deterrent. I remember my DM's words. No nice man will ever marry you!! But she was practically Victorian and my GPs were. Now it's the norm to have the babies first and then think about a wedding when you've saved up for it.

When my children were little I once chatted with friends about how many of our children had been planned, surprisingly many of us had at least one who wasn't . Maybe we weren't typical but I suspect that it wasn't discussed that much then.
I wouldn't want any girl to have to be in a relationship where she wasn't happy, but nor do I like the idea that she is able to cut a man out of a child's life simply because she can, and it is easier for her.

PECS I'm in complete agreement that there should be a supposition of co-parenting, when the parents don't live together. I know a couple (mum is in her late 30's so not a teenager) who have never lived together, but are very successfully bringing up their child as joint parents. The dad is completely hands-on and they have a very happy, secure child. I know of two dads who had to pay thousands of pounds in legal fees to get the same result after many years of heartache - the bias towards the mother, legally and in society, is still very much in evidence.
This issue of unplanned babies and the prevalence of unwed mothers is nothing new. Anyone who does genealogy as a hobby can testify to the number of 'shotgun weddings', as they were called in days gone by. Also the number of grandchildren being raised by grandparents.

Try Mumsnet and learn about the apparent acceptability of one night stands. Seems to be all the rage. Hence the unwanted pregnancies. Not my bag I must say.

Trying to promote the idea that children might be better off being bought up by a man and a woman together seems to be unacceptable now. There were always shot gun weddings when I was growing up, at least three close friends, I know two stayed together. Another two raised their children on their own, nothings new except maybe that all the couples involved grew up together and knew one another for years at church or school.

Re unplanned pregnancies, both my parents and my in laws had an unplanned 4th baby.

I have no doubt the the world has 1000s of fabulous people lovingly raised by only one parent. However if both parents can successfully be involved in bringing up children that should be encouraged & supported..in whichever arrangement works!

PECS I'm with you on the need for our society to 'do something' about encouraging both parents to understand their children need them. Ideally, parents who like each other and want the same things but in the absence of that, parents who love their children and make a commitment to being the best parents they can be.

The UK does seem to have more fractured families than other European countries. We also have higher levels of drug/alcohol abuse. I don't want to go off on one - but, it's a societal thing. Ginn Lane isn't only happening in Hogarths Britain, it's alive and well in a town near you right now.

I think on the whole society still has lower expectations of fathers than mothers. This leads to SOME fathers doing the bare minimum out of laziness and others not properly ‘stepping up’ because they believe it’s not their role, or don’t understand how important they are. It also means that some young women do not appreciate the importance of a father in a child’s life, and try to prevent him having a relationship with the child.

annsixty
Sex education is failing girls ?

Are you suggesting that females in 2019 have no idea of the mechanics of sex or the possible results even when condoms are used?
Women (and men) are drinking more than ever before, especially at weekends when they socialise until the early hours.
Many females start their drinking at home whilst getting ready for a night out with mates. It continues in bars then clubs until they spill out onto the pavements in a state of disarray, often unable to stand unaided or make sensible decisions.
Personal responsibility comes to mind.
Sex with someone you've just met or anyone with whom you don't have a long term relationship is foolish and shows that you don't have much regard for yourself.
Casual sex, IMO, is demeaning and the cost to the country of supporting many single mothers (with housing and benefits) who often aren't 100% sure who fathered their child, is spiralling.
It sometimes doesn't even stop at having one child.
To be clear to those readers who look to pick holes, I am not writing about women who are bereaved, divorced, those who were in LTRs or left due to abuse.

I strongly feel that, if the father is known and wants to be part of the child's life, that he should not only pay towards the child's upbringing but should be supported to have a meaningful relationship with him or her.
This should be easier for older males to bring about but young men, who feel out of their depth with the legalities, might need more guidance.

*that

"if the father is known and want's to be part of the child's life, that he should not only pay towards the child's upbringing but should be supported to have a meaningful relationship with him or her"

It shouldn't matter whether the biological father wants to be a part of the child's life, he should financially and practically support the child. Men are part of the act that produces a child, there are condoms to use, they can also be taught to "say no" . It's a two way thing.

We have a problem in this country with too much substance abuse and a lack of relationship/sexual education which should start at home and then be continued in school on the basis that not all parents are able/want to provide the right kind of education and support for their children.

Children usually do best if they have two parents. It doesn't matter whether their parents live together. The key thing is parental responsibility, which includes ensuring both parents play a part in bringing the child up.

In the 'celebrity' world, babies after short relationships are quite commonplace eg Katie Price aka Jordan. It's unusual to see the downsides of this mentioned. It's almost impossible for a man to insist on access to a child born in these circumstances, so it's wise for men to be absolutely sure about contraception in short-term relationships.

janeainsworth - I think you have hit the nail on the head - my ex son in law decided he would walk away from my daughter and three kiddies after eleven years of marriage because 'he needed to find what he wanted'. He claimed there wasn't anyone else involved but the GC came home three weeks later after spending the weekend with him full of news of how they were getting a new 'Mummy'. He has gone on to have two more children with this partner but has come out of work so he doesn't pay a penny to my daughter for his first three children and owes her nearly £3000 in missed payments already. He was perfectly happy to father my daughter's children but doesn't seem to think he should be putting them first, it is all about him and his happiness - he even told my GC that they should be happy for him as he was happier now.

I think in todays society, where there is so much pressure to conform (seeing it at the moment with my great niece who currently feels she should have a tattoo and/ or a belly piercing to fit in with her "friends") and some boys put pressure on the girls to have sex (usually unprotected) either because they will split up with them and go elsewhere or the idea that the girl should have sex because she thinks all of her friends are doing it - even if they may not be ! In that situation, if the girl falls pregnant, the boy either doesn't want to know or he calls her a slapper for sleeping with him in the first place!
Then you get the situation with multiple fathers that the girl believes that if she has a baby, the man will stay with her - even though he has other children with other girls.
All in all, there is a great lack of respect, either for anyone else or most of all for themselves. The best form of contraception, imo is NO !

*Iam64

I agree that fathers should pay *regardless of whether or not they want to be part of their child's life. When typing, I simply didn't separate the two acts, of paying and the relationship.