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Men behaving badly - then and now.

(14 Posts)
mcem Sat 09-Feb-19 17:08:44

With you there monica and while we are in control of the situation we can deal with these inadequate men. But don't you agree that it's different when it's an online situation over which we don't have the same level of control and rely on others to regulate the inappropriate conduct/conversations.

M0nica Sat 09-Feb-19 15:48:02

On my first day in my second job, in the research department of a big company, one of the secretaries took me aside and warned me about one of the managers (a grade, not a job). I was told never to sit down if he came into the room, but to keep moving and get out if possible

It happened I was the only woman at management level and I handled the administration, including checking all expense claims. This manager was notorious for flogging his expenses, so I went through them with a toothcomb, found several very queriable claims, told my (senior) manager and the forms ended back on this man's desk for review. He knew who had done it, knew I would do it again, and ever after never came near me.

That apart I am like Jane, although working most of my life in engineering, usually the only woman in a management grade, I met very little harassment or discrimination because I was assertive and could make myself heard in meetings where I was the only woman. Once one man has tried to bully you and you have seen them ff. The others don't bother.

To be fair, with few exceptions, all the men I worked with were pleasant, helpful, respected my expertise and knowledge and treated me like any other human being.

mcem Sat 09-Feb-19 13:14:53

jane like you I was lucky to have a dad who set an excellent example. No male/ female jobs nonsense at home and robustly defended his decision to assist all 3 daughters through university.
As young teachers in the early 70's our staff asked the HT for permission to wear trousers. He said no because he wouldn't then be able to admire all these lovely legs. That was laughed off as a joke but he later came round. Totally unacceptable today but, as he was an excellent innovative boss who encouraged his young staff, we didn't accuse him of sleaziness.
O tempore o mores!
In RL I find a withering retort and/or scathing reply sees off this behaviour but things are different on line aren't they?
Face to face these men are unlikely to have the b---s to be so rude/ patronising/ inappropriate but enjoy, hiding behind anonymity, what they see as empowerment. Posters may have to rely on moderators to deal with the problem and issues of real concern aren't addressed.
In 2019 should we be expected to put up with what we see as objectionable behaviour ?

DoraMarr Sat 09-Feb-19 12:55:06

I’m glad attitudes have changed. When I was in my late teens I had a holiday job at a menswear company, working in the shop design office. The elderly owner of the company used to come in each day and do a few hours work ( it was a bit like Grace Brothers in “Are you being served.”) one day his assistant came down and said “Mr Grace” would like to see me. He asked me a few qustions about my job, my career expectations etc, then said “Would you like to come here and sit on my lap?” I said no thank you, he gave me some toffees, and I went back to my office. I never mentioned it to anybody.

Witzend Sat 09-Feb-19 12:36:52

Things have changed so much.

Before we were married I worked for a while an airline, where until very shortly before I joined, they wouldn't take married women, and if you got married you had to leave - because your husband wouldn't like you being away - who was going to cook his dinner and iron his shirts?
(There was no mention of randy (married!) First Officers who'd slip notes under your hotel room door, saying, 'The door is open - come and kiss me goodnight,'.
I can't think why! 😈

Then when I was a student in the late 60s, in fear and trembling, I had a first tutorial with a mid 20s tutor, mid Atlantic accent, fancied himself rotten, who just said, 'Your essay was fine, I've give you a B - now, how's your sex life?'

'Er, fine, thank you,' mumbled I, all embarrassed, but not daring to tell him to mind his own bloody business.
What on earth would any girl say now, if a tutor dared to ask such a thing?

Nonnie Sat 09-Feb-19 12:35:27

marye No, don't be so silly, I didn't say 'paw' me, read the post before retaliating about nothing again please.

ninathenana Sat 09-Feb-19 12:29:28

That episode of Grantchester was cringe worthy and wouldn't happen now.
I confess blush that back in the '70s I worked with a workforce of about 40 women and 2 men. One of the men was constantly harassed with what was then regarded as teasing and a bit of fun. Now it would be totally unacceptable.
My SiL used to "mansplain" to my DD she soon cured him smile

maryeliza54 Sat 09-Feb-19 12:20:12

Nonnie did you really mean you’d let a man paw you for money? If you did I’m horrified and if you didn’t it’s no laughing matter. Yuk

maryeliza54 Sat 09-Feb-19 12:18:41

When someone mansplains something to me, I absolutely love thanking them profusely, telling them I don’t know how I’d manage without them and how terribly clever they are and it must be because they’re a man. It usually does the trick

Cherrytree59 Sat 09-Feb-19 12:14:52

I was in a job in the late seventies early eighties where there was unbelievable sexual harassment. I was young and frankly did not know how to deal it.

1, The job entailed living away from home, so no support from friends and family.
2, In my work hours
I was the only female.
3, My colleagues and superiors were of the same mentality.
4. They and the job were viewed to be the pillar of society.

So although I felt I had a lot to give and had already manged some small success, I resigned.
So no career.

I am happy that the tide has changed regarding
Equal opportunity laws,
Sexual harassment laws in and out of the work place etc.

However Sexual Harassment although not so prevalent has not gone away, it still exists in dark corners of society.

In real life or in the virtual world Mansplianing, chauvinism (towards me or mine) will get a sharp retort.

My DD has been brought up not to acccept any type of harassment and knows that she has our total support.

I do take heart from MNetters, most of whom 'don't take shit from no one' grin and will offer advice and handhold to anyone going through home or work place harrasment.

Jane10 Sat 09-Feb-19 11:46:59

I actually find 'mansplaining' very funny. I suppose that this shows so it doesn't seem to happen to me any more!
I'm quite assertive and don't seem to have suffered much or any sexual harassment. I thank my Dad for that. He brought us up to be independent thinkers and to stand up for ourselves when necessary. He was a good example himself.

Nonnie Sat 09-Feb-19 11:38:16

I am sure it has changed, what was acceptable in the past is no longer acceptable but I'm not sure I understand what, in a legal sense, constitutes sexual harassment. I admit that when I heard on the radio this morning that a woman had been given £1 million in compensation because her boss had put his arm round her shoulder and patted her bottom I thought he can pat my bum any time he likes for £1 million. Sorry folks I know that's flippant and I expect there is a lot more to it than that headline.

My driving instructor kept putting his arm round my shoulders and squeezing and I didn't feel I could complain. His was the only school in our little town so I didn't have a choice. A very famous man grabbed me and autographed my back when I was 18. Both of these would now be sexual harassment but at the time I was not traumatised and didn't lose sleep. Now it is offensive for a builder to whistle at you. I'm not suggesting that any of these is acceptable just examples of how things have changed.

In some ways I think online chauvinism is worse because it seems to be directed at individuals and shared around so that it never goes away. If something is said directly it is over and done with at the time and not shared.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 09-Feb-19 11:28:35

I think on-line chauvinism should be treated the same as actual chauvinism.

It is a form of bullying to keep “women” down. When a poster points out when another poster is mansplaining it is generally not received very well.

mcem Sat 09-Feb-19 11:17:18

I watched a recent episode of Granchester and was taken aback by the treatment of a woman who was being sexually harassed at work. It really pointed up how far we've come.
My first thought was to ask my GD to watch it and give me her opinion. That's yet to happen but I'll be interested in the discussion.
Generally speaking we are far better protected against the MCP attitudes of old.
It's clear from GN posts that many still suffer indignities at home.
How do you feel about online chauvinism?
Does 'mansplaining' irritate you?
Do you find the 'Calm Down, dear' approach acceptable?
Is this attitude to women acceptable online?