ISIS girl

Amira Abase's father is urging the Government to let her and the others back into the country, insisting: 'They are no threat to us'.
Perhaps it depends on who Mr Abase is describing as "us".
He came to Britain as a refugee from Ethiopia only 20 years ago.
He is no innocent!
He was a main player of the flag-burning mob outside the US embassy in London in 2012, with the hate cleric Anjem Choudary and Michael Adebowale who beheaded Fusilier Lee Rigby.
Why do people come to a Western Country when they are against everything that the West represents?

If nothing else comes from this very sad and sorry tale it’s that we as a country need a robust cohesive strategy to deal with returning fighters and wives of fighters because as isis is defeated there will be more.

Nonnie, I suspect we're in broad agreement about this situation.
If she gets herself back to the Uk before her baby is born, I suspect she'd be arrested and remanded in custody. The baby would therefore be born here and subject to our Family Court overview.
As well as assessing whether mum is fit to provide safe care for her child, the l.a. would need to look at her family of origin. It may be that her family are too distressed to consider caring for the baby, if its found they were in any way culpable or for whatever reason, unable to protect the baby from dangerous people or influences, then adoption would be considered.
The first place to look would be within the Pakistani Muslim community so the baby's long term needs can best be met. There are few Pakistani Muslim foster carers, or adoptive parents. Any prospective adopters of this baby would probably feel uneasy that birth parents could locate them and cause disruption. With the internet this is more problematic than it was in years gone by. Additionally, the need for children to have good information about their family of origin, given in age appropriate ways throughout their lives leaves prospective adopters in situations like this in some difficulty.
Jalima - I don't know whether SB can come back from her experiences. I don't know enough about her personality or any m.h. issues that contributed to her decision, to be so attracted by the idea of a caliphate that she went to Syria. Very worrying decision.

I also think a lot of the grooming narrative is exactly how white middle class people regard ethnic minorities.

At 15 she knew exactly the aims and ideals of isis.

Give her agency!

Of course if the baby could be taken from her and adopted that would be the best outcome.

The home sec is a weasel granted

Gonegirl I don't think her distress at the loss of her baby is as important as the future of the baby.

PECS I don't think the baby should go into foster care, I think it should be adopted and I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people wanting to adopt babies. Yes, a short time in foster care but a lifetime of being cared for in a stable environment.

The HS as ever just talks the talk with both eyes on the leadership. He promised the earth re Grenfell and Windrush and it’s an understatement to say he failed to deliver. He knows damn well he cannot in the long run stop her returning and if you read his statement carefully you can see it for the weasley words it is.

desensitised - sorry

subject to psychiatric and psychological testing.
She has been totally desentitised - is there a way back for someone like that?

I do not support any right wing supremacist group..whether hiding behind a religion or a political "ideal".

However if we took every child away from extremist parents we would be even more short of foster carers!

Would she go into a form of protection program, name change etc??
Well, that thought did cross my mind GrannyG which I would find an unacceptable use of taxpayers' money.

Gonegirl

Seriously!!! You think teaching a child that an Islamic death cult is the way forward? Gay men should be killed. Infidels beheaded. Survive bombings of innocent children is ok. The mass rape of yazidi women and slavery all fine?

Wow you have a very different view to me of what constitutes a good and fit parent!

I do think those saying that she brought it on herself so let her stew are lacking in understanding of how grooming/ brainwashing works! 15 can be a time of hormonal & emotional turmoil. She made a foolish and probably romanticised badly infored choice as a teenager. Her whole life is buggererd! She has probably endured things she never imagined when she stepped onto the plane. British authorities knew she was at and a risk before she left but were slow to respond. She has seen 2 babies die. Show a little compassion or you become as hardened as she is to atrocity. Nobody is a winner here.

It would be so cruel to take her baby away. Horrific to even think it.

I've read all the posts but won't name anyone as too many comments. I think its a shame on such an important thread as this that so many seem not to have read the other posts.

My summing up is that she should never have been allowed to leave the country when the security services knew what she was up to.

She was only 15. We all have sympathy for the 14 year old who committed suicide because of what she had seen on social media, this may well be a similar situation. From the day she arrived she will have only heard the ISIS propaganda so it is hard to expect that she would have any sort of balanced opinion about the life she is leading.

What she has done is abhorrent but we cannot legally make her stateless so if she finds a way to get back to the UK there is nothing we can do about it. I don't think we should do anything to help her come back.

I think if she comes back her child should be taken away from her and probably adopted because if her family take it she will still have access.

I am not sure if the UK legal system would be able to find enough proof to charge her with crimes which would attract a long sentence. I worry that if she is in prison she will radicalise others.

I think it is a shame that so much money would have to be spent to monitor her and try to change her attitude when it could be spent in so many other ways.

Me too GG

She would probably be unemployable if she came back. So a life on benefits??? Would she go into a form of protection program, name change etc??

I can think of better use of my taxes!!!

I think most people are against her returning because she has said she does not regret her decision and, more worrying as far as I am concerned, the sight of a severed head in a bin did not faze her. If she is allowed back how do we know she will not attempt to influence others, how will she raise her child?

As I understand it she can be stripped of her citizenship if it is considered in the public safety to do so. As she has voiced support for an organisation which seeks to attack our way of life I think that criteria has been met.

I could accept that when she went she was perhaps naive but she is now older, has lived under that regime and seen the atrocities carried out in the name of ISIS and yet still has no regrets.

Yes I am puzzled by the home sec saying he will prevent her returning? My understanding is he can’t under international law

No she hasn’t said he’s dead - he’s disappeared since he surrendered. I guess he may well be but she hadn’t said that- it’s irrelevant anyway

And this victim narrative is mysogynistic.

I have some sympathy for the parents. Fifteen years old! I remember my son metamorphosing from a sweet boy, into a total horror for three years, then like a light switch he was back to being a lovely person, who makes me proud. Granted staying out, trying drugs etc are not about killing and terrorism, so much simpler to deal with. Being a devils advocate, on the other hand, none of what she has experienced, will make her a soft gentle human being. She wants to protect her child, which is admirable, but she also claims not to regret her decisions, which are worrying. I can’t see how we can prevent her return, she is a British Citizen, who else will want her? She cannot be made stateless. As she is pregnant, any sentence, if she is tried for terrorisom offences, (paid for by the tax payer) will take that into consideration.

I think her husband is dead. That’s what she said.

I am guessing that if isis was doing well and had taken over Syria she wouldn’t be wanting to return.

Honestly no I really can’t sum up any sympathy for her. She’s responsible for her situation and the death of her children by allowing them to be born in a war zone.

She choose to go. I am not accepting the grooming argument to be honest. Any 15 year old born and brought up in this country with full access to the internet and news knows exactly what isis have done. Know their aims and know that they kill indiscriminately Muslim and any other men women and children.

They were fully aware.

Perhaps it’s time to change some of our laws then!

Begum’s lawyers will no doubt be delighted to exploit the very freedoms and human rights that Isil exists to wipe out.

If you’ve made your bed with a jihadist fighter whose day job includes beheading aid workers and throwing gay people off tall buildings don’t be surprised if the majority of people in this country don’t feel sorry for you.

I was an intelligent girl at 15. But I was still a very ignorant and naive girl, and I can see how I could have been inspired at that age to sign up for some cause. It is very easy at that age, especially if you are part of a small group, to idealise something you have no experience of, there is , and always has been, an excitement in running away from home to join the Foreign Legion or the navy, or in this case, ISIS.

Whatever this woman has said, I think the reality must have been a profound shock. I believe that at least one of these three women quickly realised how wrong she had been and may have died when she tried to escape.

I think we should let return those who are British citizens only and they should suffer the due rigour of the law when they return because the best way we can highlight the differences between the arbitrary barbarity of ISIS, and, indeed, Iran and other countries, is by the openness a fairness of our legal system.

There are problems of radicalisation in prison but it is up to the British government to make adequate investment in our prisons to counter this and the many other problems of violence and drugs that the prisons contain.

She made her bed...let her lie in it.