Argument with DD’s neighbour

Well, our ne neighbours have been having a lot of work done on their house. On occasions vans have been parked outside our front wall, sometimes edging in front of our drive where two cars are parked. We have understood those vans wouldn't be there for long. Last week the man installing their new wood burner had a huge van which did block in one of our cars but OH, although concerned said he was probably aware but OH gave him time to unload, and the minute the driver could, he edged his van forward and even gave a "Thank you" (for understanding) wae to OH in the window.

It just wasn't worth any bad feeling. No harm was done and even if we'd needed to use the car we could have asked him to move, without any aggression. Not only that, our ne neighbours wouldn't think much of us if we were moany sorts to complain every time a an appeared outside our house. Before long they will have finished their improvements. We were exactly the same when we moved in. We had tradespeople here on and off for months but no one got nasty, and we live in a fairly narrow road.

I think some people are naturally aggressive gilly. If your daughter's neighbours had a problem they could have easily and quietly spoken to you, but even so, surely common sense told them you were unloading and it wasn't a regular occurance?

We had allocated bays in the apartment we used to have and on several occasions had nasty notes left on the car windscreen when parked in our own bay telling us this was a private parking space - one even told us to use the dedicated visitors space! It used to infuriate my husband and was one of the reasons we sold the place.

Unfortunately parking is such a contentious issue these days. Is there anything in your daughters property deeds about right of way across the space? It might be worth checking. Hopefully it will all blow over in a couple of days but I can well understand why you're all so upset especially if she has lived there for so long.

I suspect you may have become the unknowing recipient of what might have been a long-term problem. In other words these people have in the past had problems and when they saw you they decided to make sure you weren't any bother. You could ask the mangement company about access but if they say it depends on the goodwill of the other tenant you are going to have to negotiate anyway. It would have been better to ask and so, as you may have to do so in the future, grit your teeth and take a gift to apologise. If you then get more aggro and have to approach the mangement company you will do so with a great record on neighour relations. Because believe me they may be abusive to you but these people probably know exactly how to manipulate the mangement.

Our drive and that of our neighbours is narrow and sometimes we cant get out if a visitor of theirs has parked badly. I dont go round bellowing and threatening- I would ask nicely if they would mind moving. It's all about give and take surely.

Nasty b*ggers! No way would I take round chocolates you might get them chucked back at you. They don't seem like people you can reason with.

They sound aggressive and territorial and abusive. Unfortunately your family lives very near them.

I would go and say something like " Oh I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot."

It totally doesn't excuse rudeness but maybe there is something going on for them.

Instead of parking in the bay park across the entrance to it.
I'm not a hundred percent of the regulations applying to parking bays, but if the same as a drive, if there is a vehicle parked in it you are not allowed to block it in, but if there isn't you can block there access.
And no, I wouldn't be taking chocolates etc, because I suspect they won't make the slightest bit of difference.

I think you should have run it past them beforehand to be honest, even tho you’d have probably got the same reaction. I’d leave it a week or 2 till they’ve calmed down, maybe they were drunk or on something? Can you really not park somewhere else, even if it’s further for you? It’s your daughter who has to live with it. They are totally unreasonable but unfortunately bullying is the only way thick people can express themselves. Ridiculous to think or expect the poor police to get involved.

I think you ought to have asked first but it is so easy to make a mistake like this and easy for people like me to be wise after the event.

What's done is done. Even though it goes against the grain, you could try (for the sake of DD) going round to apologise and see if it calms the situation. I agree you shouldn't have to do so but it would be nice if things were easier for your DD as she actually lives near these people.

If anyone should be apologising, it sounds to me like it should be the aggressive unreasonable people. Some people like a row it seems to me and perhaps these neighbours fit that category. I'm not convinced that an apology/offer of chocs/wine will do anything but encourage these people to build up their sense of their own importance. Humph sorry you had this experience on what sounds like a happy productive day gilly

gillybob...my mum has a similar living area with marked bays... the local council have told her that bays are marked as a courtesy and actually dont not mean they are "owned" by the persons whose door number is merely painted on the floor

gillybob yes take chocolates but lick them all first

Ooo nanny2507, I like your style!

I would consider this not the best way to engender neighbourliness. To just assume you could park in their bay is inconsiderate and disrepectful. Boundaries are essentuial in a small area and you have just swept in disregarding the neighbours. How on earth did you know they weren't expecting visitors or a delivery? What stopped you introducing yourselves and asking if you could use their space for an hour ...please. You have treated these people with contempt. I find their reaction extrrmely overreactive and aggressive. Their living arrangeents are not your business. They probably are very fedup of people using their space. What an atmosphere you have now created due to lack of courtesy. Didn't you consider the logistics at the start of your planning? Perhaps an apology and bunch of flowers may repair the situation.

I am sure you would not dream of parking on someone's drive without asking, therefore why should you think it acceptable to park on a designated parking space without permission?
Your daughter should have cleared it with them first; she should go round immediately and apologise profusely for any inconvenience, and then try and negotiate permission for their space to be used for unloading purposes. She needs to check with the council about the terms of use of parking bays and even if it is only a courtesy title , it should be honoured it for the sake of neighbourly harmony; she has to live with them.

Well I think you assumed too much by thinking you could park in her space without asking and you should apologise and then use a wheelbarrow to transport whatever from your vehicle to your daughters garden. Yes the neighbour is being a miserable old cow but unfortunately right is on her side.

Isn't there any conditions to allow access to properties. All privately owned here but conditions state we have to allow neighbour access to our garden to get to their own ig needed for repairs to property etc.

Have you never watched 'Neighbours from Hell' Gillybob? You just won't be able to reason with them, they are spoiling for a fight, so best steer clear - I know its difficult and I feel for you

I must admit that where we used to live it was a shared car park and people were always just parking where they felt like it so maybe the neighbour had just become fed up of it? Just giving the benefit of the doubt. Always best to ask first.

You really should have asked beforehand, it's just good manners, then they probably would have been fine about it. You probably aren't the only ones to have parked in their spot without asking so no wonder they are uptight. We have had similar problems where we live and believe you me it's frustrating as people constantly park across our drive and block us in then wander off to wherever they go which can be visiting along the street, shopping or the pub etc etc and then we have to hunt them down to get them to move when we need to go somewhere,that's just not on. What if we have an emergency and can't find who the car/van /lorry/caravan belongs to ? The really annoying thing is, there is also a free car park at the back where they park so they can see it and it's often empty but they will still block us in rather than park over there.Emergency services are welcome to park here without asking by the way, I'd never quibble about them.

Well I did what Baggs suggested yesterday and telephoned the management company concerned and boy am I glad I did !

It turns out that the parking bay concerned does not even belong to the horrible foul mothed idiots ! It belongs to a rented property on the other side of the courtyard. The young man at the management company said that my DD absolutely does have the right to access the rear of her own property and should have told the people "to shut up and mind their own business" as the bay is not theirs to claim ownership of. I asked if maybe they have come to some kind of arrangement with the rented property to have the bay as their own and he said that this was absolutely not allowed under the covenant of the lease (freehold properties but leased bays) . He also said that the only person who has the right to use that bay (other than for access) is whoever is renting the property it belongs to and guess what (it get better) the rented property has been empty for over 3 months. the horrible woman and her even more horrible bf have got an allocated bay of their own (as has my DD).

Anyway I am so glad I rang as he has noted everything I have said including the fact that my DD has the absolute right to access her own property via the bay. He suggested that if the house belonging to the bay was tenanted it might be worth dropping a note in to ask if they could swap bays with my DD on a temporary basis but as it stands there is no one living there.

Spoke to DD this morning and she said it doesn't really make her feel any better as she is still frightened of the horrible idiot .

Incidentally I will add that my DD has lived there exactly the same length of time as the woman (the threatening foul mouthed man friend is relatively new on the scene) as they both moved into the new builds at the same time. So contrary to what others have said "no getting off on the wrong footing" My DD has always worked full time (shift work) until having the baby and has now dropped hours which means she is at home more than she was previously.

I, too, would have made the assumption that a bay, unused for most of the time would be available to me for half an hour whilst I unloaded something but then I think I am 'normal and reasonable' and these people certainly are not!

However, the damage has been done and the 'way forward' (as is current parlance!) is for either yourself or your daughter to give a grovelling face-to-face apology. I wouldn't overdo it or the inference would be that they have power over future confrontations.

I love nanny2507's style re. the chocolates but don't even think these type of people warrant chocolates, licked or not.

A short apology explaining you didn't realise how important their bay was to them (!) and that you should have asked for permission before unloading (daft) - without trying to explain how totally bonkers they are should suffice to keep the peace for any future incidents.

I wonder legally if the neighbours are in fact correct. If your daughter was so inclined, she should check her deeds as there should be a right of temporary access to each property.

ooh gillybob that's awful, you said they were old, 'old farts' and 'silly old bugger' when he put his fists up, could he have dementia or something ?

I'm only thinking same as you, that this was an extreme over reaction to a mistake. I think this is a situation for your daughter to try to put right. No matter of right or wrong or how unreasonable they were it won't get better without trying. Perhaps if she knocks at their door with an apology for not asking first, give them an opportunity at least to apologise for their part. They may have felt very upset over it themselves and aren't sure how to approach her. If they are elderly as you say then maybe they feel vulnerable or have cognitive problems such as dementia, or they could just be and always have been belligerent people. You will never know unless your daughter goes and knocks on their door and tries. First steps are difficult but I think on this occasion it's best to give them an opportunity to repair some bridges as neighbours. Good luck to all of you on this one

Trying to think of some helpful suggestions for you.

Could you park right “next” to, say right up to the line of the bay, and wheelbarrow stuff in and out, drag it on heavy duty plastic - i.e just to make a point that you aren’t parked “in”the bay ?

Have you any other male friends that could just be there “helping” i.e. on your side....to create more of a united front and just be around support for you so you don’t feel so vulnerable?

Could you tell them that the management company are calling you back tomorrow “about the occupier who threatened you” when you have a right of access to the property.....i.e. if the man shouldn’t officially be there...it might cause them to rethink their own approach to you.

If they threaten you again...maybe say that you have arranged to go in later today/tomorrow and give a “police statement” about being threatened...

Tactics like this?

Our neighbours have mainly had their front gardens paved over to allow for their own car parking. Houses are much higher on the other side of the road, and it’s difficult for them to have drives. Everyone seems to have 2/3 cars these days so parking is very difficult. Unfortunately, some neighbours are very precious about their parking, seems they spend a lot of time analysing who parks where, how and when. Very sad and petty.